AIBU or is all this gender neutrality stuff a bit much !?

[rOsie80]

I overheard the manager at my child's nursery saying yesterday how she had to inform the parents that the plan was to dress the girls as angles and the boys as something else (can't recall what!) but this was not to encourage gender stereotypes and little boys could be angels too (and vice versa) if they wanted too! Is it me or is all this gender neutrality stuff going a bit nuts !?

My nursery was "gender neutral" years ago then... everyone could play everything. The only specification they had was a girl played Mary and a boy played Joseph. I was an angel and my twin sister was a shepherd.

They asked us. WW3 didn't start and nobody gave a toss if a boy wanted to be an angel or a girl wanted to be a shepherd or a wise man.

One way the nursery could have avoided having to laboriously explain why they weren't gender stereotyping would have been .. not to. Pick them at random to be angels or stars, job done, next case.

"the nursery feel they have to explain a decision to dress girls one way and boys another in case parents object"

Well it would be much easier to just select two 'groups' that were a mix of boys and girls, then they wouldn't have to explain themselves...

If I'm to be dressed as an angle, can I be an obtuse one?

I feel I would have a natural advantage for the role.

"just that the nursery feel they have to explain a decision to dress girls one way and boys another in case parents object. "

I would want an explanation, if my GD Nursery did this.

I put up with that shit 45 years ago (when I was in Primary) and with my DDs.

There is no reason to make choices or divisions based on the Sex of the child.

OP go onto the thread about "you should have asked", which is about the constant mental load Women carry, even if the physical housework is shared.

We should all be working to remove end this, as we did with all the other "isms".

However, I can remember the backlash when people stopped 'blacking up' and children were no longer 'blacked up' for plays, or races stereotyped.

If MN had have been around in the 70's, we'd have threads like yours asking what the issue was.

Oh Fukkit - I hadn't read through and now see that Prickly beat me to it.

If they didn’t want to give the children a choice then they could have just taken the top half of the alphabetical register and the bottom half. No reason for it to be divided into boys and girls

I'm really looking forward to watching my DS as an angle. His costume is so a-cute ♥️

Speaking as a working mum in a senior position in a still male dominated profession who actively participates in gender equality and diversity forums I think the key is about giving young (and all) people the confidence to make choices regardless of stereotypes. There's a reason stereotypes exist and that's because it's the choice of the majority (it's not all societal pressures and byproducts of days-gone-by) and they will always be there. Pretending they won't is naive imo anyway

“There's a reason stereotypes exist and that's because it's the choice of the majority (it's not all societal pressures and byproducts of days-gone-by) and they will always be there. ”

Chicken, egg etc

Still not a reason to divide children into boys and girls for non-genital-related reasons

" quite fancy being an angle, but then I've always been a bit obtuse"

I think the nursery are quite right in telling boys and girls they are equilateral.

Some of you are being very sharp about OP's typo... I know it's a reflex here on mumsnet, but you knew what she meant so there's no need to be obtuse.

While I think my DS will be a-cute in his angle costume, he won't be very happy in the performance unless the temp is under 45'

I wouldn't look good as an angle, I'm too much of a pi

Arf-arf re angle humour...

Angels were always girls and boys when I was a kid in the nativity.

You just had to be blonde :)

Ah see, my boy angle is blonde...

Angles are male in Christian tradition.

Angels even

Angels are boys. We had a mix at our primary school. Don't be sexist.

I can see the OPs point but in these situations there are always kids that are unhappy with their given role. If the roles were mixed and they had some boys as angels and some girls as shepherds there’s still likely to be upset. I remember Dd sobbing her heart out because she had to be a shepherd and a boy in her class turned his back to audience for the entire performance in protest at being an angel. I guess the nursery are trying to keep it simple and most parents are understanding, however, trying to explain this is rather tricky.

I think you start telling girls at 3 that they are angels and boys are Sheppards then it is harder for women at 18/25/35 etc to suddenly start believing that they can be either an angel or a Sheppard, as can the boys.
It's the small drip drip drip of putting women in their place from a very early age that keeps them from achieving their full potential and keeps them shouldering the majority of the burden in the home

My partner who is a teacher has been told this week that they are making their school 'gender neutral'.

This involves not addressing anyone as girls or boys, he or she, instead when referring to someone, teachers are to use 'they' just incase a child doesn't identify as a boy or girl.

It's absolutely ridiculous and PC gone completely mad! He's a reception teacher btw!

Ridiculous !! It's not being identified as a boy/girl, angel/other that's an issue it's anyone suggesting that being any one of those things limits your choices in life! Of course if you truly believe you should have been born a different gender no amount of relabelling is going to solve that... i have a huge amount if sympathy for those affected but this is not the solution !!

it's anyone suggesting that being any one of those things limits your choices in life But that's exactly what does happen.

Not solely based on who you play in the nativity, but that ALONG with a million other little differences, what you wear, what you play with, how much affection, direction you are given, how people respond to your moods/behaviour depending on whether you are male or female etc. as you grow up - IT ALL HAS AN EFFECT on the the choices you make for yourself and those that others make for you! Of course there ARE women in male dominated fields such as yourself, but they are the exception and on a larger scale your singular experience is not replicated.

Do some research, even if only watching that BBC documentary that was on a while ago, see how differently nursery workers treated a child when they thought it was a girl because it was in a dress v how they treated the children in 'boys' clothes. How can that NOT affect how we view ourselves as we grow up?

BBC Programme