Neighbours' baby not in a car seat

[shelleybee]

Posting for traffic really.
I don't know what to do. As I left the house just now, my next door neighbours were also going out. They had their 7 month old daughter with them. He got into the car's driver's seat and she got into the passenger seat with the baby on her lap. They then drove off like that.
I have seen them do the same once before. OH says he has also seen them do it before.
My dilemma is this: they are Polish and speak very little English. If their English was better, I'd have no qualms with pointing out how dangerous this is, but I've lived next to them for 11 months now and their English seems limited to 'hello'.
What should I do?

Let's all stop using car seats then folks!

firesuit, conditions were also different in the 1950s. You are not comparing like with like at all, so, if it is okay with you, I'll not throw away my children's car seats just yet.

There were about 3m cars then, so about 6% of the population owned a car.

There's about 7 times more traffic now compared to 1950.

The fatality rate per billion vehicle miles (bvm) has fallen almost every year from a peak of 165 deaths per bvm in 1949 to the lowest level of 5.6 deaths per bvm in 2013 and 5.7 deaths per bvm in 2014.

So far fewer vehicles, far fewer journeys, but a much higher risk of dying on those journeys.

DS had awful awful reflux and colic, which meant there was no way we could even do a 5-10 minutes journey without him screaming his head off. The only way out of this was to hold him in my lap, and that's what we did.

My DD also had awful colic and reflux and screamed her head off in a car seat during a 5 minute journey. I put her in a car seat for the 5 minutes rather than risk her life in an accident.
Aside from that it's against the law to have a baby in a car and not in a car seat aside from a taxi.

OP, I'd report it to the HV. Primarily because if you tell them and they do nothing and you subsequently report it to the HV, they'll know it was you. If you report direct, they'll never know.

I don't think it's batshit to keep kids safe, but I fully agree that the actual risks are hugely exaggerated. This seems to be the way of things - to listen to some people, a single cigarette (or even the secondary smoke from it) would cause instant and certain death. We should keep things in proportion.

Firesuit, that's not how stats work. You don't go through all the common occurrences before reaching the rare one. In fact with "average" luck (which isn't even how it works) you'd probably be bang in the middle - so go through 6,000, not 12,000.

The problem is that somebody will always be the unlucky person to whom it turns out badly the first time. If you don't want it to be you, one of the best ways to reduce that chance would be to use a car seat.

It's also against the law to travel with a baby on your lap (the emergency clause was written out a couple of years ago, IRL I don't think a police officer is really going to charge you if it's a genuine emergency situation with no other choice.) - far more likely conclusion than getting into an accident is being seen and fined.

Plus of course a car seat isn't just for accident security, they stop children from moving around the car and causing a hazard by distracting the driver, blocking visibility or opening doors, windows, pressing buttons etc.

It's stupid not to use them if you know the law.

My cousin was killed on Christmas Eve aged 18 months because his irresponsible father put him in the front seat of his van... he didn't have a mark on him but suffered a massive brain haemorrhage from striking his head on the dashboard.

It destroyed the family.

Car seats are not required in taxis nor on trains or buses.

Those of you suggesting 999 do sound mad. Speak to the neighbour first. But honestly, if it were me, I would just ignore it.

There was absolutely no way we could do a 1 hour journey (which we had to do regularly to get family help) without taking DS out. And I did take him out of car seat many times. It was either that or stay at home and get post natal depression.

Car seats are also required in Poland, this is not an 'unaware of the law' situation. And looking at the number of babies killed is not the only marker - for every child killed far more were injured, or even had a massive shock to the brain - and we're now increasingly aware of the long term impact of even mild brain trauma, especially on developing brains.

My youngest had horrible reflux and breathing issues, we needed to see a specialist every few weeks - but screaming or no, was strapped in every journey.

Do you have young dc yourself? If you see a hv mention it and ask if there is a car safety leaflet with illustrations, or even better in different languages, which you could pass on.

Yes but something being illegal doesn't mean nobody does it. If lots of people break the car seat law in Poland and nobody cares, they may not realise that it's taken more seriously here.

I have never been to Poland so I don't know the situation, but I do know there are countries where car seats are theoretically required, but nobody in reality uses them unless they are very rich/immigrants from a country where car seats are commonplace.

A lot of people died before the seat belt law, firesuit I have a family member who used to deal with the aftermath at hospital. Exit through the windscreen is not a good way to die.

There were many many fewer cars on the road back then, check your history books. Speeds are also much lower now due to crowded roads, we get a lot more fender benders which could well explain your stats.

Still, what's one baby more or less in a total avoidable accident or death?

OP I don"t live in the UK but in my country it is illegal to not have a child up to a certain age, height and weight restrained either in a car seat or later a booster seat. Can you go to car safety websites and see if they have anything in Polish? Or just print It out in English if you have to and give it to them and explain that they could get arrested (if that is the case). If you say it kinfly but insistently they should get the message.

One of the saddest things I ever dealt with when a junior doctor in 1987 was a RTA where a drunk driver had crashed into a car where a mum had her 6 week old baby on her lap in the front of the car. The car door was flung open in the impact and the baby thrown from the car and killed. Seeing this tiny bundle being carried to the mortuary was heartbreaking. The drinking driver was admitted into my ward and I had to deal with his admission. I obviously remained professional but it was very hard.

I can't believe some people don't think car seats aren't essential?! In a traffic jam on the motorway (caused by a car crash) once my DS screamed for an hour. Nothing to be done, DH turned off at the nearest services he could but the traffic was really slow. DS was angry, hungry and frustrated but far better that than dead or disabled.

I'd report to 101. They'll probably send a pcso round to talk to them, they might even have a Polish speaker.

Would phone 101 with car reg details, you'd never be able to live with yourself if the worst happened and you hadn't tried to do something.
Also get some leaflets on car seat safety and post it through their door.

It's European law to use car seats for kids. However, the Belgians seem to ignore it.....