To think DP should be paid

[Mrsknackered]

Need a little bit of advice, not sure where we stand!

DP started his job 20 months ago. He has recently handed in his notice and is starting a new job on the 14th.
During his time at this job he has had huge issues with MH. He is on a high dosage antidepressant, and has improved however suffers anxiety attacks at work frequently. His manager knows, and has never been very sympathetic or understanding. In the 20 months he had never taken a sick day, minus 1 when he had to take me to A&E when I broke my ankle.
He wasn't granted paternity because he was there for 10 months and needed to be for 12 - he used his holiday.
Last week, he had 2 days off due to bacterial tonsillitis and his manager was really cross. It turned into a discussion in which another manager has squared up to DP and made a spiteful remark.
DP said he was leaving, handed in uniform and came home.
They have phoned today, apologised and said they 'didn't realise the extent of his MH problems as manager 1 hadn't told manager 2 and they would like him back'
He is due to leave on the 13th anyway, but he will not get the rest of the pay he deserves unless he goes in but he's anxious/embarrassed/upset about having to go back.
What are our options?

Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. I'm a bit confused myself but happy to answer questions.

I'm sorry that you are going through this but I don't think he can expect to get paid if he doesn't go in and work his notice.

As he hasn't been there for 2 years he doesn't really have many rights I'm afraid.

Has he got any outstanding annual leave to take?

He's taken Wednesday, Thursday and Friday off with the last of his annual leave.

As Brit says, under 2 years and he has no real rights/options to speak of.

If he doesn’t go in, he won’t be paid. It depends if you need the money more than DP needs the time off. We are OK but would struggle to voluntarily lose 2 weeks’ wages, tbh, especially this time of year, and if it’s ‘just’ anxiety/embarrassment then he should go back, not least because avoiding situations isndver good for anxiety.

But if his MH would be really affected then that’s different.

If it were my DP I’d be pushing him to go back in & just grin and bear it knowing it’s a very short period of time before he can leave anyway.

The managers have contacted him and apologised. They have finally acknowledged that they are in the wrong. They did not have to do that. So now going in shouldn’t be as bad as he expected. It just might clear the air and let him leave on a slightly better note than he has currently. Might help future reference too, if he can manage to do it.

They can't withhold payment for work he had done.

He is due to leave on the 13th anyway, but he will not get the rest of the pay he deserves unless he goes in

He only deserves pay for hours that he's worked. Are they talking about withholding pay for hours he's already worked?

if he is owed money they wont pay then speak to ACAS, if he isnt owed money and expects it then im afraid he wont get anything, if he walked away without working his notice he wont be owed anything (im confusing myself reading your post as im half asleep) maybe get him to go for a meeting with the managers to discuss it, if not for himself then for the other employees that may go through the same thing

You can't hand your uniform back and announce you are leaving but expect to be paid until your original expected leave date! Is that what you are asking?

Having back uniform and saying you are leaving is generally considered to be resignation effective immediately.

I really don’t know employment law at all, perhaps the change of heart from the managers though is down to their mistreatment of his MH illness and would be frowned upon by head office. Is there a HR person in company he could speak to first before deciding what to do.

What about a sick note for the next 2 weeks? Do they offer sick pay?

Could a dr sign him off? Then it would be sick leave due to mental health and presumably paid?

A manager squaring up to staff needs to be arrested, what the fuck did he (?) think he was doing behaving like that?

You don't need to have been in employment for a set amount of time to take a case against the employer for discrimination on grounds of disability. ( Which he might be regarded as having if his MH condition is long term)

Someone has realised that he may potentially have grounds for a case against them, that is why he has had the phone call.

Talk to Mind asap for general advice before you do anything. They will point you in the direction of what to do next.

It might help to read this.
www.mind.org.uk/information-support/legal-rights/disability-discrimination/

Well he can either not go which would be justified but not get paid. Or he can get over his anxiety (easier said than done in this case) if he wants the money. He can't expect to get paid for nothing just because they were unkind.

Thank goodness for Traffig.

Also there is no limit on the award at a tribunal if your claim is based on disability. So they are worrying about this also. I would advise a visit to the GP to have it put in his notes how unwell this incident has made him, if you understand me? I'm so sorry that he was upset so badly, they sound dreadful people.

Here is another link

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/discrimination-because-of-disability/disability-discrimination/

@Hauntedlobster thanks

Sorry Traffig I was just getting more and more angry at the posters who missed the fact that mental health conditions can often be classed as a disability therefore of course he has rights. But you are the voice of reason

Thanks HL and [gin) to you!

I don't think the HR department missed it there at all. They aren't ringing out of the goodness of their heart! And they know there is no time limit for being in employment and that awards can be punitive.

OP, get advice asap, don't engage with employer until you have spoken to MIND for general advice and hopefully they might point you to a lawyer who knows about disability and MH. They may have a no win no fee lawyer to recommend.
From what you have written about their behaviour he potentially has a case against them.
Last link. www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/advice-and-guidance/disability-discrimination

Was just off to bed , will look in tomorrow morning x

Traffig, thank you so much.

This is exactly why I thought they phoned. They realised that actually he had been treated awfully and had quite a possible case.

His manager said to him a couple of days ago 'when I'm in a bad mood I take it out on you because it's easy' so yeah his two managers absolute wankers. It's a shame, all the other people are lovely.

Morning Mrs. K!
That is really shocking to read. No wonder your husband's health is so affected.
I'd suggest MrK goes to GP asap and tells him/her what has happened. What is amazing in all of this is that despite some terrible treatment from his line manager,your husband has a great attendance record. It can't really be argued at all that he is not up to the job health wise.

It might be a struggle to get through to some of the help lines this morning but do try and ring MIND, they are lovely people.
If work tries to contact husband further, is it possible for you to step between and deal with them directly and should say that he is not available to speak to them.

Also, if he writes down as much as he can recollect as to what is happened. This will be pretty upsetting ,I know, as it starts to show how awful it is but also will help for reference if he decides to take action.

From what you have written he has been also bullied, harassed and victimised in this job. He has made his manager aware of his condition and there has been no attempt at all to make any accommodations for him . His only time off has been due to physical illness or because of a family emergency.
All their actions seem to be directed at making him more unwell.

The onus is on the employer to show that they treated him well. I doubt that they can do that at all!

I'm really cross reading about his treatment and I am a complete stranger!
Send him my best wishes. He has been shabbily treated and I hope that you get advice.

If he is leaving on 13th then they are not obliged to pay him if he does not return. However, he could send in a sick note until that date. If he can manage, do not go back. You have 3 months less a day to lodge a case with a tribunal for disability discrimination. My gut feeling is that they would make an offer of compensation prior to appearing at tribunal. How it goes forward depends on the size of the employer and nature of work etc., and I know it's best not to put that on a public forum.

Hope things go your way today when you speak to people. ACAS also is a good place to start. Apols for the typos, 2 year old keeps trying to close the laptop lid and shouting NO!
www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1859

Remember hr exist to keep companies out of court and couldn't give two figs about anyone's feelings or health. If they're phoning to apologise it is a tick box exercise to make their case.

We have been to the GP, and have a sick note. We've contacted ACAS and they've told us that he is entitled to £89 a week. This is better than we originally thought (which was £0)
Do you think we should be threatening with a tribunal? I don't think DP would make it through court proceedings at the moment, but I want them to take him seriously.

You have been so helpful Traffig DP said we should send you a thank you note he doesn't understand MN

Hello there Mrs. K

Great GP! Copy sick note and send recorded to HR... not to the line manager.

Glad on the ACAS advice re the money. It's a help.

In my opinion,the employer has committed a fundamental breach of the contract of employment. This, to the extent that: your husband felt obliged to walk out of the workplace...
" fearing for his safety etc. from a threatening manager, too unwell now to return".
That is the line I would take but just my individual view.
Get a notebook and start a timeline of all of this, it will be a help.

I would not threaten a tribunal directly it's a lot of pressure on partner I agree. Just something to think about ...no pressure at all.
I would ring MIND and talk it through with them.

Tactically, (and very briefly) you can notionally serve the paperwork for a tribunal and eventually get up to the date of the tribunal itself( in theory) and often these eejits make an offer prior to the hearing. So hubby would not have to necessarily stand in the tribunal in front of them.

If I was their lawyer I would tell them to do settle prior... as they sound on dodgy ground to defend their behaviour.

Employers like this rely on people being too unwell or stressed to take a case. The decision is entirely yours and husband's. Take a few days to think about it. You have a few months to decide, but don't run out of time!

As I say, talk to Mind or these folks re the paperwork and how to do it.
I'm back this evening will look in again. Take care both of you hope you are ok

Ring MIND legal line

You can call between 9am and 6pm Monday to Friday (except Bank Holidays).

0300 466 6463
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