To find this slightly disturbing?

[PrettyCandles]

When talking about foods to a group of Year 1 children, I mentioned horseradish and one of the children said "I know what horseradish is! My mum gives it me when I'm naughty."

[Greensleeves]

I am agreeing with Xenia and zookeeper, which is disturbing, frankly

[pointydog]

would that be slightly disturbing or very disturbing, greensleeves?

[3andnomore]

Well, sorry, if my comment to Xenia was out of order, but at the time I was rather peed off with her comment about it being childabuse...like I said, I, personally, wasn't proud to have gone down that line once and wouldn't repeat it, however, I find it difficult to liken it to childabuse...sorry!
Yes, there are certainly better ways, of course there are, but, get real.....CHILDABUSE?????????????
I suppose if it was going to happen on a daily basis and /or for the enjoyment of the person that does it to the child, etc...that would be a different matter completely...but you shouldn't loose perspective, I think!BUt, that is just my opinion...

[Soapbox]

Well I can now see what Xenia means about children being safer left with a nanny than some parents.

And the main aspects of the case against the childcarers who were jailed was predicated on the use of painful/unpleasant substances in the mouth (or at least that is what has been reported in the media thus far).

I am simply astonished that any parent could find it possible to even try and justify this kind of treatment. Poor children

[DeviousDaffodil]

I haven't read the whole of the thread, but putting stuff in children's mouths is a dreadful way of disciplining them.
I cannot imagine anyone thinking this is acceptable.

[Judy1234]

The washing your mouth out with soap routine for swearing and the regular beatings with canes were a huge part of the UK method of bringing up children until not so long ago so it's not surprising many parents still follow them.

The parent/nanny thint I was just being provcative. On balance I'm sure parents love children more than nannies so one hopes you're more protected as a child by that than by the nanny worrying about losing her job and having had the training in what to do and what not to do with children. But most abuse of children is by the mother (mothers are around children more) than the father or carers and for those mothers who do find children very stressful sometimes you actually do your child a favour by going back to work. I'm sure i did.

[yellowrose]

there are parents out there who do not deserve to be parents. that's the way i see it.

i am not perfect, but i know where to draw the line between teaching good behaviour (i don't like calling it descipline, descipline is for puppies, not small children) and doing something that would traumatise my son, short term or long term.

putting mustard down a child's mouth may only cause a few hours of upset to a child, but that is bad enough. i vividly remember things that upset me when i was only 5 (i saw a child hit by a lorry when we were on holiday abroad), that is how powerful a child's memory can be.

we simply don't understand how our actions, words will affect a child and given that uncertainty and risk, it is best not to do whatever it is you do which crosses the line.

[Starmummy]

DS would love me to put vinegar on his tongue as a punishment. He'd be asking is it aged 25 yr balsamic or can I have mint sauce or if we have malt can I have fish and chips as well. He would absolutly laugh his head off. I realise different children dont like different things, DS def wouldnt be happy if it was mustard although he would ask for dijon before english if pushed.

But isnt this all getting a bit ott? We all do things differently and we know this board allows people to vent their personal opinions as if they are the only right answer. So can we just rember that and maybe suggest that the op, takes time out from asking any questions at school and waits to evaluate and maybe gather evidence if there is any to be found?

[jollymum]

Have read whole thread and tend to agree with both sides BUT isn't it funny how we all stopped being little wotsits when we were young, because our mums only had to look at us. I got smacked and I'm a sane whole person. My mum threatened to wash my mouth out with soap, I only swore once and I think that was "damn"! Did anyone see the article about 5 year olds being excluded, wonder why? Kids today have too much freedom, too many choices and parents who give in too much "in case they're not nice and traumatise their child". I'm not sayping anyone here is wrong in the way they bring their child up, each to their own, BUT today's kids are much worse behaved than 20 or even 10 years ago. My kids say things to me and I am shocked sometimes. I tell them it's not acceptable and I would never have spoken to my mum like that, because I respected her and she was my mum. She's dead now and I would give the world to take back any mean, hurtful things I said as a teenager. Different children need different disciplines and I don't think mustard etc is necessary, effective maybe? BUT it's not child abuse, ask any child that has been abused and see the difference. Yes, if it's a regular occurence, done as a cruel thing not a one off, that's different thing but get a perspective and listen to people that have been really, really abused. Ask the Mn on here who have told their terrible stories and think before judging others. One day you might have the child from hell, there are some you know, and then watch your "books" etc go out the window. If you have children all day, every day it's very hard work, having a Nanny makes life sooo much easier in terms of disciplne because you're not with them all the time and you don't always get to breaking point.

[Greensleeves]

Quite a few of the posters arguing against this disgusting and degrading form of punishment were abused children, jollymum.

[yellowrose]

jollymum - but it is us the parents who CREATE the child from hell ! they are not born devils/angels, it is our influence and the way we treat them that makes them the way they are.

[zookeeper]

I don't entirely agree with that Yellowmum - parents can only do so much - children 's minds are formed by experiences and influences beyond the realms of their parents.

Jolly,I do think that putting noxious substances into a child's mouth is abuse - some may grow up and learn to laugh it off but others may well be damaged by it.

[yellowrose]

i am not a yellow mum, still a yellow rose

[yellowrose]

zookeeper - we are our children's main influence for the most important part of their lives, their childhood, whether we like it or not. what is the point of fudging the issue ?

[zookeeper]

I am just saying that parents can't always be blamed for producing a devil child - who's fudging what issue?

[tigermoth]

Totally agree with zookeeper that a 'devil child' cannot be seen as simply the product of bad parenting.

[TenaLady]

Abused, Can those of you that have been abused define it for me? Give me examples of what actions you think is abuse.

I think giving your children food with additives, salt, sugar and fat is abuse particularly when you know there are softer healthier options!

[zookeeper]

so you think it's not abusive if the horseradish is organic tenalady?

[yellowrose]

so you honestly believe that "devil" children are born thus ? you have been watching too many hollywood movies, me thinks !

so it is entirely genetic then, parents can't alter how a child behaves or is treated ?

[tigermoth]

Don't think it's an either/or issue. I can't believe that you do either.

IMO everyone is born with ccertain personality traits, aptitudes, etc. We're not just blank pages waitting to be written on by our parents.
Obviously they way you bring up a child will help determint their behavoiur, along with a lot of other extrenal factors like school and home environment IMO.

[EHM]

prettyccandles I've just read your original post Poor child do you know the mum?

[zookeeper]

Yellowrose, there are countless examples of children with happy childhoods and "normal" parents going "wrong" (for want of a better expression)

[yellowrose]

no, you can NOT expect school or society to take the blame for how your child behaves. that is a cop out. there are some serioulsy anti social, nasty children out there and yes they will pick up some shit behaviour in schools, etc. but at the end of the day they come home and we have to "re-programme" them not to simply copy other people.

how else do you explain "good" children from "bad" ? the ones that i catagorise as good among family and friends are the ones with loving, caring parents who give them lots of attention but who also have a good set of rules at home. even the ones that go to less than desirable state schools behave well because of their parents.

[yellowrose]

give us some examples - how and why are they going wrong ? are you talking drugs or guns, or something like that ?

[zookeeper]

I am not expecting school or society to take the blame for how my child behaves, but god forbid if one of yours should ever get too heavily involved in drink or drugs or some other trouble would it be right to blame you?