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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

That the school has handled this wrong - my son threatened with a knife at school

28 replies

nonoz · 26/11/2017 17:19

I am so angry at our local primary/middle school. My son was threatened with a knife at school (he is 6) by two older boys in Juniors (middle school) on Friday. I have written a letter to the Head as the way they are handling this I feel is disgusting (my son had to get the school to tell me). I will paste a copy of the letter below but would like to get others opinions of what you would do in this kind of situation as I have never been in this kind of situation before. AIBU in what I expect from the school and how they should handle this?

The letter (I will omit all names):
Dear xxxxx

I am writing regarding an event that took place at lunchtime (within the school hall) on 24th November 2017. Where my son (xxxxx) was involved in a serious incident with two boys in Juniors which he has named child 1 and child 2.
I am deeply upset regarding this and the way that it has been reported to me and further actions that have or in this case have not been taken.
At pick up time on the day of the incident I collected my son as usual and his teacher Mr xxx dismissed him from class when he saw me. My son then said to me that he needed to speak to Mr X and ran back to him. I then overheard my son say to Mr x ‘remember you need to speak to my Mum’. Mr x then approached me and said that ‘xxxx (my son) wanted me to let you know about a situation that happened at lunchtime today between himself and two boys in Juniors. In no way was he (my son) in trouble and he did not do anything wrong at all but handled the situation very well. One boy from Juniors said to him (my son) that he would cut his hair off with a knife and another boy held a knife to his back. The two boys have consequences regarding this but your son wanted me to let you know’.
I then said to Mr X that I would speak to my son about this on the walk home (as I wanted to hear the story from himself without other parents around as we were in the playground at the time).
The incident in my sons own words:
‘I was sat down at lunch when child 1’ sister got told off for having a toy and child 1 said that it was all my fault. Child 1 said that he would cut my hair off with a knife. Then child 2 put a knife on my back, which I felt. Then child 1 said ‘don’t even look at me.’ a girl said ‘x (my son) looked at child 1’ when I didn’t, I wasn’t looking at him at all. He then said (child 1) ‘I will do it, I will do it, if you go near my sister. I will do it don’t even look at me.’
‘One of my friends got a teacher who then spoke to child 1 and child 2. Then child 1 got sent to the office to eat his pudding. Child 2 then got to miss playtime and sent to the office.’
The teacher then asked me my name, and I told her my name. She said that she would tell my teacher and child 1 and child 2 teacher what happened.’

I am saddened by the way this has been reported to me, the fact that I think that this incident is serious enough for me to have been called shortly after and the fact that my son had to remind and ask his teacher to speak to me about it. Which asks the question would I have been informed at all if my son did not speak up and ask his teacher to speak to me or would he have kept the incident to himself which is upsetting. I would also like to know if the parents of child 1 and child 2 have been informed as if this was my child I would want to know.

Within your Anti-Bullying policy it states:
Procedures:
All reported incidents will be taken seriously and investigated involving all parties. Steps taken by the school will depend on the circumstances but may include:
• Interviewing all parties as close to the incident as possible, but within 24 hours
• Informing parents within 24 hours
• A range of responses appropriate to the situation: - solution focused, restorative approach, circle of friends, individual work with victim, perpetrator, referral to outside agencies if appropriate
• Referral to Behaviour policy and school sanctions and how these may be applied including what actions may be taken if bullying persists
• Follow up especially keeping in touch with the person who reported the situation, parents/carers on a weekly basis
• Support for the victim and the bully e.g. 1:1 time, counselling, restorative approach
• A safety map will be sought at the time of the Pupil Questionnaires being undertaken, in order to monitor the safety of the school site

At no point has my child been interviewed, which I feel given the seriousness of this should have taken place within a few hours of the incident being as it took place on a Friday. I am not sure of all other parties involved including witnesses if these have been interviewed but I would welcome an answer on this.
I don’t feel I was informed in the correct way. It was more my son wanted his teacher to inform me.
As per your Anti-Bullying policy – Reporting and responding to Bullying, I would like to know how this has been logged, if anything and when it was logged. If the two students parents have been informed and if the children are aged over 10 years and have the police been involved as this is a threatening situation involving knives and I would describe as common assault. I would also like to state that my sons father and myself are still considering reporting this to the police as we do not feel the situation has been dealt with correctly so far and not taken seriously enough, which knife crime is whether it be in or outside of school.
I would also like to know what form of disciplinary action has been taken against the students involved and what the school would deem as acceptable action by the school. I don’t think that having ‘playtime’ taken away from them is suitable punishment for this form of bullying and I would be deeply concerned if the school thinks and acts in only this way.
I send my child to school trusting that he will be in a safe and secure environment. When incidents like this are reported to me by my child and the school is acting in which I can only describe as a brush under the carpet and blasé way I seriously must question his welfare and safeguarding whilst in your care.
I would welcome a meeting to discuss this matter further at the very earliest opportunity.

OP posts:
chickenowner · 26/11/2017 17:26

I'm not sure I follow.

You were told about the incident. The other children were punished.

Hometime is a very busy time for teachers and with the very best will in the world we sometimes forget to pass on messages that we were meaning to. Even really important ones. I'm guessing that the teacher would have phoned you as soon as the rest of the class had left to tell you about the incident if your son hadn't reminded him. The teacher would also have felt terrible about forgetting to tell you.

What kind of knife was it? If children are bringing knives in to school then it's obviously extremely serious and should lead to serious consequences such as exclusion.

If it was a knife from the dinner hall then although it's still serious it's hardly the same thing. The knives used in school are blunt for these very reasons.

What else would you like the school to do?

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 26/11/2017 17:29

I wouldn't be sending him back there.
No chance.

Awwlookatmybabyspider · 26/11/2017 17:31

She'd like the school to damn well make sure her son is not going to be threatened of more terrifying still harmed with a knife. Its not an unreasonable request.

afinetoothcomb · 26/11/2017 17:32

I would arrange a meeting with someone from the senior leadership team and talk to them. The letter is very wordy.

afinetoothcomb · 26/11/2017 17:34

In addition, you're unlikely to be told what punishment the other students involved have incurred.

queribus · 26/11/2017 17:34

I would be in the school on Monday morning asking the questions set out in your letter of the Ht, in person. And if you're not satisfied, complain to chair of Governors. I'm would also consider contacting the designated officer at your local authority as it seems to be a safeguarding failure.

nonoz · 26/11/2017 17:35

It was a knife from the dinner hall, but in my opinion a knife is a knife.

I don't think the teacher would of told me as we where about to walk off home when my son stopped me and said he wanted to speak to his teacher. The teacher said that my son wanted me to tell you, not that he needed to tell me.

There have been the odd occasion in the past when the teacher has pulled me aside at the end of school to talk to me but this did not happen on this occasion. he did see me as well as the teacher has to spot the parent before they are dismissed from school.

OP posts:
blueskyinmarch · 26/11/2017 17:36

Just call the school on Monday and ask them what happened. Your letter is far too wordy.

grasspigeons · 26/11/2017 17:37

it is upsetting and I am not trying to minimise it and I would speak to the school but a couple of points on reading it

by knife to you mean they held up a kids dinner knife that is blunt and half the size of an adult knife? or they brought a knife into school? neither is acceptable, but one is dealable in school one is a police issue.

interviewing your son - he told his side of the story - the fact the other children got sent to the office and missed play lends me to think they believed what he said and didn't feel they needed to delve any more

I always think with a complaint - don't write too much.

I'd always start with you are contacting the school as you were informed of an incident that took place on Friday and you have some serious concerns about how it was dealt with.

LEt them speak and then you might find half of this stuff is dealt with and then you can focus on the bits that weren't deal with well.

Id not go with a letter until after that. Take a pen an paper and write down what is said and have the policy with you.

AndNoneForGretchenWieners · 26/11/2017 17:38

If you think there is an on going safeguarding risk or it's not been dealt with effectively, complain to the governors and let Ofsted and the Department for Education know. This sort of incident is taken seriously and the school will need to demonstrate to the authorities that they have a plan in place to handle things like this.

TheWitchAndTrevor · 26/11/2017 17:44

Send the email, cc in the class teacher. A paper trail is always needed.

Then also arrange a meeting via email.

Request minutes are taken at the meeting.

By having writtenrecords it insures they have to play by the book, and if they don't it's written in black and white their failure.

All communication is by email or face to face with minutes taken, no phone calls as it's a he said she said situation, if it ends up having to go higher.

I Would also be bloody fuming in the way they have handled it so far.

trinity0097 · 26/11/2017 17:44

It’s not really bullying though, so the bullying policy isn’t going to apply. Bullying is persistent and ongoing.

Not saying this isn’t a bad behaviour incident, but it’s not bullying.

The teacher of your son won’t be the one dealing with the incident, and may be hardly aware of the facts so isn’t going to be best placed to talk to you about it. You were told about it by the teacher, so the School informed you and you child was in no further immediate danger.

ColonelJackONeil · 26/11/2017 17:51

I feel you are right it has been badly dealt with but I don't agree "a knife is a knife" a sharp knife even a small one would be a much more serious incident and yes possible police needed. A blunt dinner knife could still hurt your son but it's not instantly life threatening in the same way.
But I do agree this incident should have been taken more seriously and needs looking in to more thoroughly.

CouldntCatchACold · 26/11/2017 17:51

Wow I would be absolutely furious OP. 6 years old! Poor boy.
I'm not quite sure I understand the reasoning that it was ok because it was a dinner knife- it's ok to threaten others with a knife as long as it's blunt?Hmm

ivenoideawhatimdoing · 26/11/2017 17:55

OP can I just start by saying how awful for you both and I hope your little boy is okay.

This is frighteningly serious.

My husband has been a police officer for twelve years and has been to probably a dozen incidents of people being stabbed with cutlery.

Call the police, they will deem this extremely serious, violence of this level is not normal in Primary age children. They will possibly wish to investigate this and raise a PVP (Protection of Vulnerable Persons report) in which they may investigate the child's home life if they deem there to be anything awry.

If you advise that the school is taking inappropriate action they will gladly come in and speak to the children in question along with their parents. To be honest, I would expect this as the basis.

If someone did this to my son I would have been no where near as restrained as you. Well done.

I think your letter is perfect and I would hand deliver it to the head in the morning if you can. Have these children got form for bullying? How old are they?

I told DH and he has offered to go and scare the shit out of them.

ivenoideawhatimdoing · 26/11/2017 17:57

Also pudding in the office?

He shouldn't have got pudding at all.

PotteringAlong · 26/11/2017 18:00

It's not bullying if it's a one off incident.

They won't tell you anything about the other children.

ivenoideawhatimdoing · 26/11/2017 18:00

I disagree with those saying a blunt knife is not as serious.

Given enough force anything can penetrate skin. Also, what relevance does it make? Had they had access to a blunt knife, a sharp knife, an axe, or a stick, they held a 'weapon' to his back and threatened to stab him. That is a threat of Actual Bodily Harm and at the very least common assault.

Sorry for the spam but I'm absolutely raging for you OP!

grasspigeons · 26/11/2017 18:04

I'm not suggesting its acceptable. Its horrible behaviour and needs to be dealt with strongly.

I do think calling the police because a child held the dinner knife that he was eating with to another child's back and said I'm going to cut off your hair doesn't seem appropriate. (especially as the dinner knives are really tiny and blunt and the child could be 7 years old.

WishingOnABar · 26/11/2017 18:12

I find it very concerning that a child in middle school range was threatening another child with a knife in this way and very much doubt this is a first or isolated incident. The child must have picked this up somewhere and the school should be investigating further, there could be issues within his home that need to be resolved. Whether the knife is blunt or not is irrelevant. Your letter is too wordy however, and I think you need to be insisting on discussing this face to face with the head asap.

tampinfuminragin · 26/11/2017 18:13

A blunt dinner knife could still hurt your son but it's not instantly life threatening in the same way.

I totally disagree. Both are equally as dangerous if the skin is pierced.

nonoz · 26/11/2017 18:13

Thank you for the replies.

My son is 6 (just turned) and the other children are in the last year of middle school so around 10 years old, I do not know of them or if they are known for anything like this in school. My son did say that one of them is naughty all the time.

My son is ok and very open with me (thankfully), I have asked him if he feels ok if he has to speak to the HT about this and if a police officer was to speak to him about it would he be comfortable and he is fine with all that. I did say they might not but I would rather be honest and prepare him in case they do.

He is still looking forward to going to school tomorrow and seeing his friends.

I will hand deliver the letter first thing.

OP posts:
AuntieUrsula · 26/11/2017 18:16

This is pretty grim and I can well understand that you want to take it further. However, I think your letter is too long and repetitive, which undermines the message. For communications where you want something specific to happen, short and to the point is best. Take out all the stuff about anti-bullying policy, which isn't relevant here. I'd go with what grasspigeons said and simply put you that you have heard about this incident from your son/teacher, have serious concerns about how it has been dealt with and request a meeting asap.

grasspigeons · 26/11/2017 18:26

Im glad you son is ok and looking forward to school.

I'm really not trying to minimise it - just to help you clarify your complaint. Sadly, when people complain they are so emotional and have so much information to off load that the actual issues get lost.

Its really hard. when my son was bullied at school I literally couldn't talk. I had to get a friend to speak.

DullAndOld · 26/11/2017 18:30

last year of middle school is year 8 equiv., which would make them 12/13.

And your son is 6? That is seriously concerning...
Frankly what kind of knife it was is not the issue. I wouldnt care if it was a butter knife or a butchers knife, I would still want the police involved if only to give these little scrotes a nasty scare.