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AIBU?

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Original poster

To simplify the whole trans debate

27 replies

boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 22:22

It's just getting so bloody messy. So here is an scenario of 4 job applicants.

29 year old, born a man wearing a suit and tie, a bit of stubble walks into a job interview. Doesn't get questioned when they are having kids.

A 29 year old "biological" woman who has a) better job experience, b) a better degree, than the applicant above, but is the "prime age for having kids. she gets asked about her family.

A 29 year old trans woman with the same experience as the person above, is also interviewed. She didn't get asked about her family.

A 29 trans man was also interviewed. Same qualifications as the man. Also wasn't asked about their family.

Only the man and the trans man got selected to be taken to second rounds of interview.

Was it because the other two applicants where women?

No it wasn't.

Because the fourth was, a woman, but she came across as a man.

The second applicant was perceived a risk because they might go on maternity leave.

The second was because of the prejudice of a man bring feminine. Women are inferior so why would you want to be one..

This, in very simple terms is why women support the rights of men wanting to break the social terms of gender and be "feminine" but why we can't except trans women as women.

We strive for equality, but not the same rights.

OP posts:
speakout · 24/11/2017 22:24

But it isn't legal to ask such a question of anyone at interview.

PurpleDaisies · 24/11/2017 22:26

You can’t ask anyone about their plans to have children in a job interview. Confused

Original poster
boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 22:30

Of course you can't, but it happens and just because it's not allowed doesn't mean there isn't an unbiased conscious

OP posts:
MrsPicklesonSmythe · 24/11/2017 22:32

I've never had a interview where I wasn't asked about childcare/plans for more children etc.

speakout · 24/11/2017 22:33

Does it happen often? I have had many interviews and never been asked about my reproductive plans.

Original poster
boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 22:34

Me either MrspickleSome and when I don't o know they are thinking of it.

OP posts:
alltoomuchrightnow · 24/11/2017 22:37

You can't but they do. Three interviews alone this year, I've been asked. In the past, at least 50 I'd say.. going from my late 20s up till now (mid 40s) I'm infertile, I hate being asked. But I'd hate being asked , no matter what the circumstances, just because I am a woman.

alltoomuchrightnow · 24/11/2017 22:38

If it's a big company, eg nationwide/worldwide, chances are they won't ask. But mainly I've worked for small ones, often family run. Those ones have never not asked.

Original poster
boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 22:39

Speakout they may ask or just assume.

Are you this niavie, this is one of the main reasons for the gender pay gap.

Women are seen as child rearers, the government expects women to be economically active. But employers don't want to hire women in roles they are capable of because they might have a baby..

OP posts:
SimultaneousEquation · 24/11/2017 22:39

To be honest, OP, I’m not convinced you have simplified any debate: you’ve simply given us a hypothetical example.

But if the point of your post is “couldn’t we all just be a bit more excellent to each other”, then I am on side. I don’t like the entrenchment between the different camps here - we have far more in common than divides us.

kootoo123 · 24/11/2017 22:40

I strive for equality and equal rights. What I dont stand for is the removal of one persons rights to appease another persons.

sagamartha · 24/11/2017 22:50

A 29 year old trans woman with the same experience as the person above, is also interviewed. She didn't get asked about her family

How does the interviewer know that the transwoman is trans?

Do you think that the interviewer may make the same assumptions about the woman as about the transwoman?

Original poster
boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 22:52

If trans is such a big thing than the scenario is not hypothetical it could happen.

What I fear is we have all gone a bit PC!

The point of the story was, if I need to dumb it down so much. Is if your male or perceived as male even, you have a chance of "fitting in".

If your a woman or trans it's harder.

But that didn't make a women or a trans woman equal.

It just makes them both oppressed

OP posts:
PurpleDaisies · 24/11/2017 22:54

To be honest, OP, I’m not convinced you have simplified any debate: you’ve simply given us a hypothetical example.

I agree. I don’t get it-how have you made things any simpler here? Is there a huge problem with companies hiring trans women over women?

There is a big problem with the gender pay gap. This is a women’s issue. Where does trans come into it?

sagamartha · 24/11/2017 22:56

There is a big problem with the gender pay gap. This is a women’s issue. Where does trans come into it

There's also a trans pay gap.

And a BME pay gap.

There is one group that probably doesn't have a pay gap.

PurpleDaisies · 24/11/2017 22:58

There's also a trans pay gap.

And a BME pay gap.

There is one group that probably doesn't have a pay gap.

I agree, but that’s not what the trans debate is about. It’s whether trans women should have the automatic right to access women only spaces and sporting events etc.

glitterlips1 · 24/11/2017 22:59

I have never been to an interview and been asked about my family life or children/plans etc.

mickeysminnie · 24/11/2017 22:59

"If you need to dumb it down?" Do fuck off dear! Just because two different groups face discrimination it does not make both groups the same!

Original poster
boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 23:02

Purple daisies, this is the point. Trans didn't come into it.

It's a women's issue. Not a trans women's issue.

Women need and must have equal rights to men.

AND trans women need their rights too.

But let's not confuse it with women's rights because it is NOT the same

OP posts:
Original poster
boomitscountginula · 24/11/2017 23:03

They are not the same? Can you read?

OP posts:
Nyx1 · 24/11/2017 23:06

I think you're having an epiphany of some kind

Also, what Mickey said

Also I cannot see how this example is useful in any way.

eweMustBeJoking · 25/11/2017 02:14

@boomitscountginula

There is no such thing as a gender pay gap.

Trans people are a tiny and insignificant issue.

Everyone in your fairly useless example have exactly the same equality of opportunity. Actually, it was great of you to acknowledge that applicant B (the woman) is likely to have better qualifications and already be ahead in her career due to a skewed system in the UK.

Can't believe I've been sucked in to yet another trans thread.

TathitiPete · 25/11/2017 07:45

But, correct me if I'm wrong, anyone can become a parent if they wish through adoption. (Theoretically, obviously I know the adoption process isn't simply handing out babies to whomever asks for one). Therefore any of those four people could take paternity leave.

rightsaidfrederickII · 25/11/2017 08:21

YAWN

WildBluebelles · 25/11/2017 08:40

How in the name of god do you think you are simplifying the debate??? You really are not. Your weird example adds nothing to any debate.

As others have said, it is illegal to ask questions about family plans and even if they did surely nobody would say 'oh yeah, I am hoping to get pregnant in the next few months actually'. Women face discrimination in the workplace but it's often more subtle than what you pretend that it is. Women get jobs but don't progress as well and they are different jobs to men.