To think why moan about sending your child to a faith school?

[farmerswifey33]

We are lucky in that where we live schools are undersubscribed and you have a very good choice of 3 primary schools 2 of which are faith (CofE) and the other isn’t.
We have so many parents at the school who moan about the fact it’s too goddy 🙄 or that there is a nativity play as they don’t believe. Worst thing I think is how they tell their children this who then tell my children they are stupid for believing in god and Jesus!
I just wonder why they would send their children here because they DO have a choice! I don’t get it?

Schadenfreude because working with the PTA will not make much difference to a school in reality and even if it did, it would be years to see improvement. We all pay our taxes which pay for education so we should all have equal access to the same schools. It is ludicrous that people of faith have access to more schools. It's equally ludicrous that state funded schools are able to discriminate on the grounds of being part of a relegion. IMO, it's not much more than the churches way of keeping bums on pews. I know numerous people who developed a sudden interest in attending church around the time their firstborn arrived. Funnily enough, it tapers off once the last child makes it to secondary school

We have a comprehensive near us which no one would tough but was pretty much your only choice if you were not relegious. It's made a huge improvement in the last few years and had now surpassed the previously well thought of Catholic school. Interestingly, there are a lot of parents who suddenly don't think a Catholic education is as important after all.

I certainly would prefer to pay more tax to guarantee access to a decent secular education for all children. It's ridiculous to say that people should just move etc, how can you be happy with a system so broken that people have to go to those lengths? The vast majority of schools near us are Christian and the secular ones very oversubscribed.

YANBU op. DS is at a CofE primary. For us there was no choice as we are very rural. I am not religious, but my parents are. I went to a CofE primary and enjoyed it.

I am hoping that DS will learn about Christian values as I do think they are important. When he asks us about God we tell him that some people believe in God and some people don't. I'm happy for him to make his own decisions. I certainly would not be telling him that people who believe in God are silly. That's horrible (and the head teacher would go mental!!)

Education should be totally secular. All but especially CoE schools are just used by middle class parents who suddenly find religion at the appropriate time.

Education should be totally secular

Absolutely this. It's a disgrace that there are schools that discriminate based of the religious beliefs (or the pretend religious beliefs of the parents)

Schadenfreudepersonified - The effect a PTA can have on overall school quality is really marginal. And I was the chair of a very active and successful PTA for three years.

And the issue locally is not that faith schools are better and oversubscribed. The issue is that all the local state primary schools in the villages nearby are C of E. There is no choice.

We're catholic and sending our boys to catholic school in the US which is all private. No state schools are catholic here.
This is how it should be.

I am hoping that DS will learn about Christian values and this sort of thinking is part of the problem imho. Christian values aren't any better than anyones elses values. Christians still bully, commit fraud, steal etc A child needs to be taught good moral values they are no better just because they are Christian. Funnily enough plenty of athiests, agnostics, heathens and any other religion etc have very high moral values and never commit crimes and they manage it without needing to be religious.

We all pay our taxes which pay for education so we should all have equal access to the same schools. It is ludicrous that people of faith have access to more schools.

This. Especially when education is compulsory.

i am hoping that DS will learn about Christian values

MummySparkle you do know that you don’t have to send your child to school to do this don’t you? Also, are you aware that you can still lead a decent moral life without following a religion?

I went to a private Catholic school because it had the best league tables in the county at the time. I also went to school with people of all different faiths. Hindus and Muslims made up a large proportion of the children. The parents had all chosen the school for the exam results.

Oh now come on - all the sensible arguments against the OP are pretty much negated when put in the context of a private school which people are choosing to pay to send their kids to!

*People of faith at the application stage of applying to faith schools haven't put the PTA work in either, so why should they get first dibs at a local school, just because they share that faith with some existing parents?8

Because they aren't whinging about the ethos the schoo is built on, and which makes it such a popular school in the first place.

ReinettePoumpador PinkyBlinder I think you may have misunderstood my comment. I am completely aware that you do not need to have a religion to have moral values. I believe that I have a strong set of moral values and we teach these to the DCs at home. I mentioned the Christian values as mine, for the most part, correlate with those, therefore I know what is being taught at home and at school will be the same.

And no, I don't have to send my DCs there. But I want to. It is the only school vaguely wishing walking distance and I enjoy being part of the community of living in the village. WE believe that DS may have some SEN, and therefore it's really important to us that we chose a school that will most suit his needs, and this was that school.

I mentioned the Christian values as mine, for the most part, correlate with those, therefore I know what is being taught at home and at school will be the same

No I dont think I misunderstood your post. You've just said it again that you clearly believe a 'christian church school' will teach your child the same values you hold. You are suggesting that any non christian school wont teach the same values so you think in some way your christian beliefs are superior and will provide a better environment for your child to learn.

Non religious families hold the same morals as religious families in most cases. Funnily enough schools all generally teach good values, this isn't specific to christian schools. My point is that you believe your child needs a christian provided education because you think its preferable as it matches your own personal religion. I'm saying religion is personal and has no place in schools and all children no matter what school they go to are taught right from wrong. Its not specific to or better from a christian school. Too many 'Christians/other religion' feel their children will only be taught their good morals in a religion specific school and thats false. What you are actually teaching your children us that your religion is the only acceptable one thats good enough to provide your child with an education.

Those posters saying they can't believe people complain about nativity plays, I can assure you they do! And in writing too sometimes.
I have professional experience of parents sending their child to a fee paying Christian school and complaining about the fact that the school celebrates Christmas!

ReinettePompadour

Please tell me where I have stated that non-religious families have no morals?

I purely stated that I know that this school shares the same morals as mine. I agree that other non-religious schools will share a very similar moral code too.

I have worked in many schools. Religious and non-religious. My experiences tell me that there is a bigger focus on moral code in a religious school than in a non-religious. That's not to say that it isn't there and isn't promoted, I just believe it is easier to promote in the context of religion, especially Christianity, as there are a multitude of Old Testament stories to use as a base for assemblies.

Because they aren't whinging about the ethos the school is built on, and which makes it such a popular school in the first place.

Shadenfreude this makes no sense with your other post. Either membership of the PTA is terribly important or it isn't. Which is it?

And it isn't the ethos which makes the local faith schools "popular", it's that most of the local schools ARE faith schools. It's the desperation to get into any local state school at all, which is why giving first dibs to children who happen to be born to religious parents is so unfair.

I'm a religious parent. However, my religion believes people are all equal in the sight of god, which is why I think elevating the children of religious parents over other children is a disgrace, so I don't do it.

It really annoys me that there is actually no such thing as a secular education in state schools anyway. I specifically chose my childrens school as it was the only school of many nearby which wasn't either CofE or Catholic. Nevertheless, they are legally bound to include worship etc. It obviously sinks in somewhere too as my 5yo has been telling us all how God made everything and this is absolutely true as school said.

That said, why on earth would you actively choose a faith school (as opposed to that being the only option as it is in many villages) then complain about religious teachings there? So hypocritical, especially those who attend church only to ensure a place then moan about it - known a couple of those!

Roomba why shouldn't any parent choose a state school for the reasons that make sense to them (closeness, transport links, results, etc)) and still want to moan about the aspects of the school that annoy them? We wouldn't criticise a parent who praised the school their kids were in, but also said things like "I wish it was on a bus route" or " I wish it was close enough for my kids to walk to", or whatever.

If there was overprovision of local state school places, and parents chose a faith school over a non-faith school when all other factors were equal, it would be a bit odd. But parents choosing the best fit for their kids, whatever that best fit means, and moaning about the things that don't suit them (in this case the religious aspects) isn't in the least hypocritical, just an inevitable result of there being faith schools at all.

Yes, you're right, I can see that. I think I'm just bothered by there being so few non faith school options in many places in the UK. If your other options aren't feasible due to travel etc. then of course you'll choose the faith option. I know it is due to the church being the main historical provider of education too.

I just got on my high horse and ranted because I'm cross I can't choose a non religious education (even in a non faith school) without home educating. Which is a different issue to the OP.

Also what's wrong with other kids challenging the "beliefs" of your children? It's bad enough you bring them up on this utter nonsense but then you complain when their peers talk sense to them? In an increasingly secular world they will have to get used to it. And so will you

I came here from the Father Christmas thread about a parent being worried their 7 year old may tell others that Santa doesn't exist but of course it's ok to describe God as 'utter nonsense'?

How rude. Are they the same about other religious festivals!?

Why do people always talk about "ethos" when it comes to faith schools? What do they mean by it? Isn't the distinguishing feature of a faith school that it teaches children a belief in the supernatural? That's nothing to do with "ethos" (which suggests a set of values) but is an epistemological difference.

Can someone tell me what a 'Catholic education' is? My friend often says she likes her choice of school due to its Catholic education. Nothing to do with the outstanding ofsted and excellent exam results of course.

Agree, what is the 'ethos' of faith schools? our local RC primary has a dreadful record of pushing out children with SN in the name of improving results/grades/behaviour.

Of course the grades will be better if there are fewer students with learning diffs. Of course there is less disruption if there students with challenging behaviours get excluded.

ethos? my arse!