To choose this school..?

[laurzj82]

DD starts school next Sept and we are currently looking at schools. She has SEND but no EHCP as she is not "severe" enough.

Local school is Ofsted outstanding and the one everyone wants to get into. We went to the open evening and it was all very nice but there was just something about the feel of the place I didn't like. It was a hard sell on Ofsted, phonics screenings, SAT results etc and when I asked about SEN provision and pastoral support it was skimmed over very quickly and then back to their wonderful academic results.

Anyway, I went to look at another school this morning. About 2 miles away but undersubscribed. Terrible Ofsted. Has been in special measures and is on a "rough" council estate. Nothing wrong with that btw, it is similar to where I grew up. Anyway, I loved it. Headteacher showed me around herself, got to see the children in class. They looked happy and well behaved. Much smaller school and the classes have rooms off to the side for smaller groupwork (my DD can struggle in a large group). They also have a place for the children to have a sensory break which would be really useful for DD. All in all, I was far more impressed with second school.

I think I know what I would like to do but AIBU? Am I taking a huge gamble? Is an OFSTED report the be all and end all?

Thanks in advance!

Sorry, forgot to say what sort of questions should I ask that I have probably forgotten?

Take the second school. trust your gut.

No the OFSTED report isn't the be all and end all. Finding a school that suits your child's individual needs can make all the difference to some children.

Most children do just fine at their local school, other parents need to make a more considered choice. Some children thrive in a large school, others need a smaller school. Some schools are better equipped to deal with SEN/pastoral issues than others, etc.

You know your child best of all and sometimes we have to go with our gut instinct.

I have always taken the view that you choose a school based on a) whether you'd get in and b) whether the kids seeem happy.

If you want your child's education to be all about SATS results and academic achievement school a seems like a good choice. If you want them to be happy and have her needs catered to it seems like school b is the one. The only thing is whether the two things are mutually exclusive.

I'd take the second school for your DD

Surely you can always just move her to school two if school one doesn't work out? Given that it is undersubscribed.

School A will obviously be doing something right and are rightfully proud of their results. In an open evening where AEN issues are, by their very nature, something which only affect the minority of people, of course they were skimmed over.

School B, due to its location and intake, is likely to have far more pupils with AEN and therefore be better provisioned for in this area.

OFSTED is important and highly valuable but moreso to staff and management than parents. You also need to consider the extra effort that goes into schools in special measures or with otherwise poor results. I was an executive head for several years, shipped in to failing schools.

I don't think you're comparing like for like as far as an open evening vs a tour goes. I'd contact school A and ask to either come back or have questions answered another way. Get a better idea.

As a slight aside, I am amazed that any head can take prospective students and their parents on a tour of the school. I view bathroom breaks as an opportunity to reply to emails and have a whiteboard next to the loo!

As a mum of an extra needs child I would go to the 2nd school, I’ve had a child in the wonderful schools both primary and secondary and they all but destroyed her

Even though she was highly academic they provided zero support for additional needs.

Over on the special needs area you will hear this echoed time and time again, often the less attractive schools provide far better support in a more nurturing environment

I spent too long replying. Don't trust your gut. It's for digestion.

Get as much info as you can and trust your head.

Hi lovely

My goodness I could have written this 3 years ago!! I was in exactly the same position.

Local catchment school was Outstanding but something didn't quite feel right. The school was huge for an nschool and didn't know how my son would cope. He has Autism, but no EHCP - for the same reasons as your child.

Please let me reassure you, firstly that an EHCP isn't the be all and end all. The school has a duty of care to provide support for your soon where he needs it. Yes, you might have to keep on at them, but this is sometimes the battle we have to fight.

In the end I sent him to that school and he has flourished. I'm wondering whether you go back to the local school and have another visit. Sometimes it can look different a second time! Also take a list of questions about SEN provision and ask them For example, " I assume you still provide support for those with SEN but without an EHCP?, if so how?"

Also does the school have a full time SENCO? Or is that person a SENCO and a teacher? I found this makes a difference.

Its a worrying and anxious time, I totally understand your concerns!

When we looked at a school for my son (no SEN to compare though) I felt the same as you did about the first one we saw, felt it was cold / sterile / too results focused and was gutted when that is here he was allocated a place there, he is now in year 3 and the School has actually turned out to be a wonderful, warm School who look after each child’s needs and work with those that need in, engaging with the parents to ensure we are all on the same page and I can’t belive it is the same school that did that open evening.........(probably doesn’t help you much but just a different view)

Why was the second school in SM?

If OFSTED is terrible they'll be getting extra support anyway. My DS struggles and phonics etc. are difficult for him. Go for the 2nd school - gut reaction and you can sell the extra rooms for group work etc. if grandparents ask why you've chosen that school.

If it's further away, will it impact on your DD's ability to bring friends home to play. That would be my only concern.

Don't go by Ofsted alone. Small schools that tend to provide really well-rounded holistic education can often do poorly in Ofsted as it's just a numbers game. The school we chose is one of these. The Ofsted is not good at all, but it's all down to test scores. They very vocally admit they don't teach to testing and it's not a focus or priority for them. The education is very holistic, lots of creative play, forest school, excellent engagement with the local community, school trips, swimming pool on site and swimming lessons for PE, wonderful pastoral care. It's much, much smaller than all the other local schools (which get great Ofsted, but not so great in everything else, lots of behavioural problems). We considered all of them, but I really do think you should trust your gut. We are so happy with our choice. It felt right and it has been. The quality of the education is wonderful and their test scores have improved since last Ofsted, but they still don't teach to testing and that's great. My teacher friends are all currently looking to pull their kids out of 'Outstanding' schools because they hate how poorly rounded the education is. Now there could be bigger reasons for poor Oftsed results and reading the reports and visiting will give you some sense. But I wouldn't automatically overlook other schools as they can be wonderful and supportive without all the glitz and glamour of flashy test scores.

I'm torn. Why is the school in special measures? Is staff turnover high? Is the head new? What sen support do they offer? What proportion of school has sen? If dd needs breaks from classroom and she doesn't have echp is there going to be someone to take her out. Do they have a sen unit attached if mainstream doesn't work for dd.

I would choose the 2nd school, you know your daughter and it sounds like she's more likely to thrive in that environment.

As an aside, my dd's head showed us around and knew the names of the children in reception. It was one of the reasons I chose the school, I understand it's not the norm but it really impressed me.

I would go with the second school. You have to pick the right school FOR YOUR CHILD. Ofsted has its place, and as long as the Ofsted for School #2 isn't reporting serious issues with management and safeguarding I wouldn't be overly worried.

I was in a similar position 10 years ago. My DD has quite significant and complex needs and had a statement which meant I could have 'picked' any school for her and they would have had to take her. So I looked round my local, outstanding nice middle class primary and hated it!! Yes they get good SATS results and yes the children were delightful but the work on display looked like it had been produced by robots (it was all the same, very uniform, no individuality or any of the 'poorer' work that may have been done by children with SEND).

The clincher was when I was discussing DDs needs with the Senco and Head and was told "well I supposed if we have to take her we'll have to cope, but we don't usually get many children like that".

I then looked at a 'rougher' primary on the other side of town. Very different demographic, adequate Ofsted, bigger school but more staff visible. The staff were wonderful, very adaptable, so caring and nurturing. The focus was on the development and learning for the child, not what results they churned out at the end. They celebrated success in many forms and didn't do rewards for 100% attendance!! (This was important to me as DD had so many medical and therapy appointments so never will achieve 100%).

I truly believe that if a school feels like a good fit for your child then it probably will be.

I would follow your gut for children with sen the right placement makes all the difference.

If your still not sure then contact both schools and and to meet with the senco to discuss their sen provision.

I'm going a bit against the grain here. Get more info. It is great that there are group rooms etc but there may be 7 or 8 children in the class who need it more than your dd so don't base your decision on that alone.

Good advice up thread to make appointments with the Sencos of both schools.

YANBU. My DC both attended a school which sounds identical to the outstanding one you visited. I went on a waiting list to get DD1 in there and got DD2 in on sibling rule.

While it was great for DD1 who is academic and quiet, DD2 struggled more with reading and was (is!) extremely energetic and sporty...we emigrated as it happens but looking back, had DD2 been my first born, I would have simply sent her to our local school which sounds like the school you visited and loved!

I've been in this situation, sent DC1 to the outstanding school but It was terrible for Dc2 who needed extra help, no kids on free meals a very small, useless department with a Senco who was so dated in her views it was unbelievable really. The other school I almost moved her to was in measures but the additional needs section was praised and very modern with many more kids with a diagnosis. Fate stepped in with me after 2 years of frustration when the head changed and she completely changed everything and dc got loads of extra help but had that not happened I would have had to move dc.

I taught in a school in a difficult area that struggled regularly with Ofsted ratings because the data was never going to be good enough.

It was the job I enjoyed most out of all the teaching jobs I've had. It was caring and nurturing and the staff pulled together. I would certainly go with school 2 for your dd. They sound as though they're on board with SEND.

I certainly wouldn't base a decision on OFSTED it's a box ticking exercise. I would go back to both schools and ask specific qs relating to your child and meet the SENCO.
Incidentally I have looked round 7 primary schools in my time and always been shown round by the Head. I personally wanted a school where the Head was involved in the day to day life of the school rather than a 'Manager' type Head.

My dd goes to a school that is ofsted outstanding. She has autism. She also has an ehcp with full funding for a 1:1 School have been horrific. Our head won teacher of the year ten years back, is a young ish head (late 30s) but it has been a horrible experience. My dd is only allowed in school for two hours a day which is an improvement on the 45 minutes she was allowed to do all through September. Go with your gut. You need a school with good care and who are understanding.

OP on “The clincher was when I was discussing DDs needs with the Senco and Head and was told "well I supposed if we have to take her we'll have to cope, but we don't usually get many children like that". I would no way in hell send my child there! That’s a disgusting attitude.