To think this is sexual harassment

[DesmondsDiner]

I have a 14 year old daughter who attends a mixed school. She likes the academic side of school well enough but hates the social side. Her class is predominantly boys and they all, bar none, talk about sex and porn all the time. Deliberately within the girls hearing or at them (eg have you ever done this? Sort of comment) they gesticulate obscenely behind the teachers backs (all the teachers are female) and talk obscenely about the teachers. As you can imagine it is hard to get my daughter to give explicit examples as she is embarrassed partly and also does not want any attention drawn to herself at school if I say anything. However, the teachers struggle to deal with this particular class so punish them all as a whole. They have been labelled as a problem group even though most of the girls are quiet, good students. Most of the boys are good students too but I guess peer pressure has even the more gentle ones joining in this talk.
I want to speak to the school about it (eg if the adult teachers cannot cope how are the students meant to know how to handle it). I wish my dd had the courage to say: stop talking like that, it is offensive. But she doesn't. She says she is invisible to the boys as she is very quiet but it doesn't mean she doesn't hear and see what they are doing. I imagine if this behaviour were in an office setting it would not be acceptable, so in a school setting where she cannot get up and leave, it should be even less acceptable.
These boys are not bad kids (I know most of them and their families as it is a small community) but do not seem to grasp how inappropriate their behaviour is. Would I be reasonable to ask the school to tackle this? Or should my dd just put up and shut up?

Lad culture? Rape culture i think. This sort of behaviour is vile. Do these lads really think it's ok to act in that way? A short segment of video being played to their parents would work wonders.

ttbb you are just plain wrong (yet again) that the legal definition of harassment necessitates proof of an intent to cause discomfort. It doesn't. Behaviour that creates an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for someone is harassment, whether it is intended to achieve this effect or not.

YANBU, this needs to be nipped in the bud, NOW. Don’t accept some crappy “boys will be boys” comments from the school. The boys know full well this kind of behaviour isn’t acceptable, they do it because they are allowed to get away with it. The fact that they do it behind the teacher’s back shows this. I doubt they’d act this way in front of their parents either.

ttbb

she states, they are doing it to make her dd uncomfortable. involving her.

blimey with the boys will be boys attitude round here, no wonder we are actually fucked.

If a kid sat in a classroom with a black child and made racist comments that vaguely were aimed at them, does anyone this this would be accepted in this day and age? would anyone say, oh well he was just showing off to his mates, or oh he's only a child he doesn't understand. Fuck that would they

We have to teach young people what is or isn't acceptable in society.
all this, it's just banter bullshit that we get fed perpetuates the problem.

Fgs, Ttbb.

Just translate this into an office situation. The men endlessly discuss porn, deliberately making the women uncomfortable, and ask them about various practices - 'Have you ever done....?' When the woman boss comes in, they gesticulate obscenely behind her back and make obscene comments about them. That's not sexual harassment?

Too right it's bad for the boys to get away with it, but I'm more concerned with the 14 yr old girls in this scenario. And their teachers, who don't know the half of it. SLT should be coming down on this like a ton of bricks.

Definitely talk to the school. Completely unacceptable. Of course it’s sexual harrassment Ttbb.

This is the training ground we all have as women to put up with sexism our entire lives, it is important, we do matter and our comfort is as much a priority as anyone elses.

Yanbu, and its the schools responsibility to deal with it. Its a hostile environment for girls and a breach of the Equality Act.

Ttbb;
''Sexual harassment is a form of unlawful discrimination under the Equality Act 2010. The law says it’s sexual harassment if the behaviour is either meant to, or has the effect of:

• violating your dignity, or
• creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment''

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/sexual-harassment/

Horrible, unacceptable and very common. Far worse in FE

Shocker. Multiple women telling you you're overreacting
It's only a few jokes
It's only sex
It's only porn
It's only...

Ugh. We are so conditioned to put up with this shit that some people dont even see how bad this really is. This is a massively hostile environment and happening at a crucial age when these kids are learning their place in society and how to interact with the opposite sex. It needs to be addressed, with the boys, not by removing the girls as if they're the problem. No wonder boys can't learn to control themselves when their own mothers don't see the issue. My boys will be in deep shit if they ever behave like this and I would absolutely want to know about it.

TBB well it DOES make the girls uncomfortable.

What you're saying is they may not be AWARE of it (though some will be)

So what needs to be done is they need TEACHING.

They are sexually harrassing OP's DD and others whether they know it or not.

Ttbb i put up with similar at school and i can 110% assure you that they mean to make the girls uncomfortable.

If the school does not act, take it to the governors and the local authority. Find out if they are expecting an Ofsted and be very clear that this will be raised by you during the inspection.

It is in some ways a form of bullying and intimidation. It will be affecting boys and girls, so the school needs to deal with it. Some teachers feel intimidated by it too and don't always know how to answer deliberate, provocative questions.

Surely this should be a countrywide issue for all schools, particularly year 7 and over. With online porn, some rap lyrcs, easy access to images on phones etc. schools all need clear policy.

Sounds to me like the parents of these boys are either hopelessly naive as to what they are up to or very poor parents. I would be ashamed if I had a son doing this.

The school refused to do anything in emails but i continued complaining again and again until eventually one of the girls said that she was going to 'be transgendered now' as then the abuse would be a hate crime and dealt with my suspension. Then everything changed. Male teachers were drafted in who gave very firm discipline and the ring leaders had to sit in outside the head and deputies office all day for any small behavioural issues

Isnt that shocking! When it’s only girls and women being harassed it isn’t an issue. When exactly the same things happen to a person who identifies as male, it’s a hate crime.

Holy shit, SarahJConnor! Isn't it awful that when it's "just" a girl, nobody gives a shit?

I absolutely agree that we need to speak out about this sort of behaviour at every opportunity, for our daughters' (and sons') sakes.

I put up with some pretty terrible sexual harassment (constant sexual comments, touching, pestering for sex, etc.) during my first job as a teenager, because I didn't even realise it was unacceptable. I was so used to 'lads' humour' that I thought it was all par for the course.

Now I'm appalled at what I put up with. It didn't even occur to me to tell my parents!