...or is there a lot of internalised misogyny on MN today?

[wheresmymojo]

I feel like I've stepped into a parallel universe this evening where MN has been taken over by MRAs...

• Serena, the brand new mother, looks shit in her wedding dress

• Women are shit at holding discussions

• If as a woman you have any concerns at all about people with fully in fact penises accessing women's spaces just because they said 10 seconds before they are a woman you must be transphobic

There are more going on this evening...but seriously?

Am I being oversensitive or is it a bit woman hatey on here today?

It's not bigotry or hate that causes mothers to be concerned about a Tim / accessing themselves or their little girl in a state of undress. It's common fucking sense and standard safeguarding.

What is it with people like you? What exactly is your obsession with trying to ensure these men are allowed to access vulnerable women and CHILDREN? You are telling people they are bigots for being concerned about that? Just fuck off.

There needs to be a name for people like you. In fact, there is. I've just made one up. You are a SMAC, a supporter of men accessing children.

Dinosaurs, it's been said many times, if you are seeing trans misogyny and bigotry you need to report it. People who accuse others of bigotry often don't see the irony of it.

I report it often because it makes me feel horribly weak and overwhelmed. And much like Facebook, MN just says 'does not break our rules' and does nothing.
The anti-trans brigade really don't understand how few safe spaces there are for trans people, online or IRL. The anti's talk about it as if they are losing all their spaces, but it's just not true.

The anti-trans brigade really don't understand how few safe spaces there are for trans people, online or IRL

I really disagree that there is no safe space on line for trans people. What makes you think there are no safe spaces for them in real life?

There’s a thread where a woman said she doesn’t want daughters because she fears they will be victims of assault.

Cue several replies saying “So glad I have boys, girls are whiny and annoying”

I wouldn't have thought that a place explicitly designated "Mumsnet" would be the first port of call as a safe place for trans people.

@pengggwn

How is that misogyny, internalised or otherwise.

You know that simply having a negative view of an action of one woman doesn't make it sexist.

I think you're a little confused.

I agree OP. The tone of the posts has changed quite a bit on MN since I joined 8 years ago. There is less humour , a lot more anger and nastiness and more and more posters are happy (aggressively happy if that makes sense) with gender stereotyping and traditional female roles. I feel like an old dinosaur sometimes simply because I am a feminist and can argue a viewpoint without insulting other posters.

The anti-trans brigade really don't understand how few safe spaces there are for trans people, online or IRL.

How odd! The trans brigade don't understand how few safe places there are for women, online or IRL either!
Who'd have thunk It?

Can someone please explain why the disabled person's thread was removed yesterday on aibu? It was about disabled toilets and incontinence?

Can someone explain what a safe space is and why they have suddenly become a thing?

The anti-trans brigade really don't understand how few safe spaces there are for trans people, online or IRL.

This would be laughable if it wasn't so terrifying. The crime statistics indicate that transwomen are more likely to be the perpetrator than the victim of a violent crime. But if the law changes go through, those crimes will then be recorded as being committed by women, thereby rendering it impossible to even access this information.

It's just like when MRAs come along and tell women that actually men are the true victims of domestic violence, they're just scared to report it. Apparently all those men murdered by their wives are never actually reported to anyone

Mrmee

How odd! The trans brigade don't understand how few safe places there are for women, online or IRL either!
Who'd have thunk It?

Totally agree with this. I think that this is what gets to me the most is the amount of women who jump to the defense of the trans community before doing anything to help other women? Women are still fighting for basic rights but yet there is such publicity about rights for trans people and you can’t say anything to go against the grain or speak of concerns and you are labeled a bigot or a TERF?

"This forum is totally overrun with trans discussions."

There are quite a few lately as the subject is always in the non-MN news at present, and as more women are waking up to the fact that the word 'women' is now being expanded to include men.

But even so, there's ONE right now on my Active Conversations. One among many and varied topics about sleep, Christmas, donor conception, disinheritance, David Cassidy, woollen blankets, infertility, Eastenders, schools, handbags, and should my neighbour close her curtains.

You must be looking for them.

Is it misogynistic to say Serena Williams looked shit in her wedding dress? Or is it more misogynistic to say that every bride looks beautiful on her wedding day (with the subtext being that she must be beautiful because it's the happiest day of her life because she has finally been validated by achieving the life long goal of marriage to a man).

I think the demographic of posters has changed recently. There are a lot more posts by people who do not think very deeply about things.

malcomTucker

Infiltrated by MRA’s.

Difference.

The anti-trans brigade really don't understand how few safe spaces there are for trans people, online or IRL

So the minority subsection of the trans activist community who believe in instant self-declaration and have precisely no intention of living or presenting as a female, should be able and encouraged to come along and evict women from all the places they have spent decades building for themselves?

If the genuine trans community want to work on building safe spaces, go for it. I bet there will be tons of womens who will support that and help. But no, you can't take over our DV refuges, our rape crisis centres, our intimate gynae care, our changing rooms, our girl childrens bedrooms on school trips and all the rest of it.

And most of all, no you cannot and will not take the term "women" and make us a subset of it.

None of that ^^ makes me transphobic or a bigot.

Transmisogyny is not a thing. It's a meaningless word. Misogyny (GYN) is hatred/prejudice against female people. Trans misogyny cannot exist as the 'trans' of female is male. Misogyny cannot apply to male pekple.
Trans identifying males experience homophobia. Also awful and unacceptable but not misogyny.

There is a lot of internalized misogyny. It's sometimes the only way women can survive.

It just seems lately you either have to buy into this mumsnet brand of TERF or you get shouted down. It’s getting to the point of hysteria.

It’s exhausting. And the tread about not wanting daughters was disgusting.

Hysteria. Always the accusation when women are worried about something, even when it's something perfectly legitimate, like safety and dignity.

Is it misogynistic to say Serena Williams looked shit in her wedding dress? Or is it more misogynistic to say that every bride looks beautiful on her wedding day (with the subtext being that she must be beautiful because it's the happiest day of her life because she has finally been validated by achieving the life long goal of marriage to a man).

I do not see any good reason at all to comment negatively on Serena's dress/breasts.

FaFoutis Wed 22-Nov-17 06:43:47

I think the demographic of posters has changed recently. There are a lot more posts by people who do not think very deeply about things

This. ^^

And I don't think anyone's cause is served by the MN-approved-flavoured-Feminists screaming about the same 5 or 6 clearly disturbed, demented and probably less-than-honest individuals who are a tiny, tiny part of the debate about trans issues that really needs to be had.

If we could have a thread that didn't display the illegal misgendering fanned by PBPs and the tedious dog-whistle arguments from the FTW crew (who don't own the only legitimate argument that doesn't support the current knee-jerk government stance) then perhaps we could move the debate on.

The disingenuous "show us where we've been horrid/misgendered" response by the FTW crew when challenged is also tedious because of course, most of their most egregious posts have been removed. It's why these threads end up looking like swiss cheese.

The fact is that the boards have been infiltrated by other boards because we are so easy to goad and froth. Wind-em-up and let 'em go. It's sad that that's the way things are going. But there you stuff changes, your USP is muffled under a pile of steaming shit, your witty, well-educated audience with a large disposable income moves on for all of the above reasons. That's life.

"It just seems lately you either have to buy into this mumsnet brand of TERF or you get shouted down. It’s getting to the point of hysteria."

Honestly, you haven't seen any of the long, thoughtful threads where women are discussing and sharing ideas and thoughts? You see hysteria and "shouting down"?