Are you a good Samaritan or a good Christian?

[hiddley]

Don't know why this occurred to me tonight. Listening to too much Stormzy for my age I think lol.
I would consider myself a good Samaritan but not a good Christian.

For e.g., I don't go to church, I don't praise the Lord, I don't pray, I don't engage in charitable works. On the other hand, if I see a homeless person on the street I will give them whatever change I have in my pocket (usually fuck all) and roll them a cigarette.

I am also the type who will stand up for the one being picked on, which usually lands me as the new central victim. But ..........

I actually think actions speak louder than words and songs of praise.

I do recognise that the Christian and other religious communities are social centres for people also, but often, they don't carry anything spiritual out of their prayer service.

I just don't usually find people to be both. They are either one or the other.

There are still Christians who believe in redemption through faith not works, but I think fewer than there used to be.There are certainly a couple on Mumsnet..

No a hell of a lot would still get done. Because there's a hell of a lot of non christians doing just as much work.

I agree that there are plenty of other groups doing things. My point is, if Christians stopped, there would be less being done. Surely you can see that?! If Christians stop doing things, the same amount would not be being done! And by my reckoning, the more people doing things, the better. Some shouldn't be told that their contribution is worth less because of their religion. I sure as heck was grateful for the times Christians helped me out. Just as I was grateful for the times others did, who weren't affiliated to any religion.

That's a kind post, lostintranslocation. It does often seem that anything 'good' Christians happen to do is somehow of a lesser good than others because 'they are doing it to please a deity' so it makes the good without God somehow purer, hence Christians can't win

I'm a Christian. I see good all around me, from folk of all faiths and none, in daily acts and conversation. Christians should never claim to have the monopoly on good - far from it. Integral to the message of Christianity is that we all fall short of 'good'; thus Jesus. And he had a lot to say about religious people who thought of themselves as good...

I'm not fond of playing Goodness Top Trumps in these matters. Yes, many people of faith do good works as a result of faith and because it's good to do good things. Many people without faith do good works because it's good to do good works. Meh. Christians believe it's all from one source of good - why do we have this intrinsic knowledge of good and bad?

It does anger me when I see hypocritical behaviour in churches - and I have seen it. But far more than that I've seen people of faith who take 'doing good' very seriously and work tirelessly in their communities. Our church supports a food bank, homeless shelter and debt advice centre among others and so many people give a heck of a lot of time to things like these. So I'd refute the OPs statement but never turn it around to say We Do More Than You. Not a very Christian attitude really...

If 100 people in the UK do good deeds and each help 1 person, and 20 of those helping are Christian, if the Christians stopped then there would be 20 less people being helped.

If Christians stop because people tell them their motives are wrong, who will help those 20 people? People who aren't Christian? So why don't they do it anyway. In which case 120 people could be being helped.

Do you see what I mean? People of any religion or lack of religion can do good things for others. It's not a competition! We don't have to belittle the contribution of others based on our perception of their motives!

What I really struggle with is the OP believing that he is a good Samaritan because he is giving homeless people a fag.

Why don't you Give them hot meal, a cup of tea? Why don't you give food to a food bank OP? Or volunteer in a night shelter? Crisis at Christmas?

"What I really struggle with is the OP believing that he is a good Samaritan because he is giving homeless people a fag."

They say they give change as well. Why shouldn't a person have something non essential just because they are homeless? Who are you to dictate?

I think the OP is simply a GF.

Quite often on MN you see people post about lonely elderly people, and some people often say “contact the local church, they’ll have people that visit”. That’s true, most churches do. But those same people don’t have some magic cloak that means they get everything right all the time. They’re just as likely to leave the grass to grow too long and break the machine cutting it or eat too much cake. People are human. There isn’t a spectrum.

I consider myself a Christian, in that I believe in gid, but I don't attend church. I personally think it's the smallest and least useful part of the religion (waits to get slated!) Before my dc2 was born, I'd spend Sunday mornings volunteering. Surely that's a better use of my time? Looking forward to getting back into it once my youngest us a bit bigger. I think being avoid Samaritan goes a long way towards being a good Christian, the church attendance a much smaller part.

Well I think it’s clear you are wrong OP.
Most food banks are set up and run by Christian groups (although there are Muslim and non faith ones).
Most hospices were set up and are run by Christian groups (hence most are Saint something).
City angel schemes are Christian. The Samaritans were set up by a Christian. Many support schemes for refugees and asylum seekers are based in Christianity as is the Seafarers Mission. Many churches provide soup runs and support for the homeless - and not just the Salvation Army. Many put on Christmas lunches for the lonely. There are clubs for the elderly, clubs for the disabled, home visiting for housebound.
That’s before we start on international aid.
I think you’re confused about how Christians are motivated. Far from the ‘ doing it just to get to heaven’ twaddle, they mainly do it out of love for fellow humans and a belief in the value of life itself with all people being created in God’s image.

Deptford, you reminded me of this.

I would say i try to be a good person I watch out for lost dc, if someone looks upset ill go and see if they need owt. I once rescued some frogspawn from a puddle I try to help where I can but i don't give to charidee and I don't go to church/consider myself a christian

You're either a kind, generous, honest person or you're not.

You can choose to give yourself religious label you like (or not) but in the end, actions speak louder than words.

Going to Church does not make someone a "Good Christian".

I’m not sure you’ve done enough research if you’ve managed to come tho the conclusion it’s either or.

Good post Crumbs.

nousernameforme haha as i said, I am not an expert. I'm sure someone who works for a homelessness charity can one along and advise.

I am an atheist who works in the charity sector, and has worked for a number of Christian charities.

The proselytising kind are a minority, and the reputable ones are actually, in my experience, often more comfortable working in more radical ways than the secular ones. For example, an aid charity is somewhat limited by its donors interests, some Christian agencies I have worked for are able to be a lot more radical in terms of, say, challenging the financial system and their donors accept it from them, because of the religious component, whereas the secular orgs would be dismissed as lefties, even if in reality their staff have a similar make-up.

In my experience, individuals natural tendency for being decent is exacerbated by who they spend time with. Working in the charity sector has definitely made me a better person outside work in minor ways- I have colleagues concerned about the environment so I worry more about it, I volunteer for a different org outside work, etc. I imagine being in a church would do the same if that was the focus of the church. The flip side is a lot of people attracted by power were historically attracted to religion, and not all congregations have that focus.

If you listen to Rowan Williams, I think he is an objectively good person with an understanding of the world who speaks to my experiences in it. Justin Welby marginally less so. And that's as someone who is not religious, or raised in their faith, but listening to them one resonates and one doesn't, and I imagine that is the case for most Christians too- you can embrace the parts of your faith or your humanity which call you to behave a certain way, or you can ignore them, but I don't think you can make a sweeping statement about what people will do based purely on their faith.

Don't you have to believe in God to be a Christian?

I think of myself as Christian even though I don’t go to church often and at the moment have a somewhat rocky relationship with God.
The charity I have chosen to support is not a Christian organisation and the faith or lack of faith of the people it supports is totally irrelevant.
I would never give money or even a fag to someone in the street but do support my local food bank giving regularly to the supermarket collections. I also put pet food in the collection point for the local animal charity.
Nothing big I just give what I can when I can.
This doesn’t make me better or worse than someone who gives 10% of their income to charity every month or someone who gives nothing.

I try to do the right thing because that's what I want done for me. I am not in a position where I need to be scared into it by supernatural threats, which is how religion started.

Giving drugs to the homeless (or anyone) is not my definition of the right thing.

Ok, lots of interesting points (apart from me being a GF).

I guess my opinion comes from being street homeless for 3 months.
There were a lot of church-going-types (and I just know you're going to pick that apart, but believe me you could spot them a mile away) who wouldn't give you the time of day. They were usually security guards (and again you're going to agree that homeless begging is illegal and that was their right).

I had to beg as I had no ID so no benefits. But I always knew that come Sunday morning, they would be at the front of the church praising the Lord and his goodness, singing their Gospel songs and speaking about helping the less fortunate and poor in society. I had one particular guy tell me to go to the job centre and get a job (I hadn't washed for two months at this point lol - I'm sure I would have been well received and probably sprayed with Impulse haha if another ongoing post is anything to go by). He told me I was just a lazy person. He was a security guard for Lidl and I was sitting idly begging with a little written sign saying that I was homeless, annoying no-one.

On the other hand I had people who looked like they had just about as much as myself delve into their pockets and give me their last 10pence.

One particular guy stood out to me. He was driving a massive big Merc and just stopped his car and got out and handed me a tenner and told me that he hoped my day got better. I had been crying and he made me cry even more. He was a young guy, and I very much doubt a church goer, though perhaps he went to church every day - who knows. (That's possibly where the Stormzy connection comes in haha - he looked very like him).

As for giving money to homeless or even a cigarette, you have no idea how much it means. Contrary to belief, street homeless are not always on benefits, do not have any accommodation, no place to wash and no income apart from begging.

Where I was homeless (north London), there was a soup kitchen on a Tuesday evening and a Baptist church served a fry every Friday morning. That was it for food. The rest you begged for. I'm a smoker and a drinker so priority was money for tobacco if possible, drink if possible and food would be the last thing.

In absolute desperation one Sunday, I noticed a Catholic church and being reared Catholic, asked to speak to the priest. This dude came out, told me he could do nothing and to go to the Salvation Army (who incidentally were never open lol) and when I gave him a bit of 'tude, he was standing on the top of the steps and I was on the bottom and he actually attempted to kick me. I would swear on the bible that this happened. I actually swear on my child's life right now that this happened. This was after him presumably giving a moving speech that Sunday morning. A catholic fucking priest.

I never really knew what religion people were who gave money, unless they were visibly women wearing the hijab.

I did notice however that black people in general were more generous and young people. The older, the more cynical I guess.

So I have a little bit of a chip on my shoulder about people who go to church religiously but do absolutely nothing charitable in their lives.

There you go. Feel free to pick my post apart. I'm not new to MN so know the score lol.

Hiddley your last post was an eye opener for me, thank you. Also I am so glad that you are no longer homeless- I assume that is the case. (and able to post on Mumsnet)
I often buy hot chocolate for homeless people on our streets and there are far more these days. Is that an ok thing to do , in your opinion!
Is the ID thing a real problem? What sort. Of ID do you mean ?

Some more information like that above would be really helpful to me.

Can I also just say that McDonalds were brilliant for not moving you on and a lot of people would buy you a burger or something on their way out.
I remember once sleeping outside Tesco's on the street in Seven Sisters and being rudely awakened by two police officers. In fairness to them they were really apologetic but said that it was Tesco property and they did'nt want me there. Presumably bringing down the tone of the 'hood....

Just in case you don't know, it's illegal to sleep in most parks and also more dangerous as you're isolated so I used to sleep on the pavements outside shops where I knew there would be CCTV and I'd be less likely to be attacked.

All of my ID was stolen. You get robbed a lot when homeless. The minute you're asleep, you get robbed. So, without any ID, I couldn't apply for any benefits. With no address, my mother couldn't even post me my birth cert. You're kinda screwed from every angle.
Police are very understanding and park police will chat with you even if they see you drinking alcohol. They are usually quite surprised at how little help is actually available. You're also limited in how far you can travel as you're on foot (not a chance of affording a bus and offending anyone with my odour).

In the end my brother and sister came over, brought me to the Irish Embassy and arranged a 'one trip only' temporary passport type thing (a page basically) to get me home to sort ID out. They knew the park I was usually in (Pymmes Park in Edmonton). Got the shock of my life when they rocked up hahah.

Hot chocolate is good, especially now that it's cold. Some people would give you the little voucher things for a tea/coffee in McDonalds too, so you could go in and buy tea/coffee and have a pee and wash your hands! Trying to find somewhere to pee was a daily mission lol. You usually had to have enough money to be a customer, but again, McDonalds never ever gave me any bother even if I didn't have money to buy anything.

Bear in mind though that a lot of homeless are actually addicted to alcohol, so 50 pence towards a can to stop them from rattling to death doesn't go astray either.

I can personally guarantee you that I know of absolutely no-one, no-one who would willingly choose to beg on the streets. It is the most soul-destroying humiliating thing to ever have to do.