To tell you never to accept a caution?

[brasty]

Or at least not without legal advice.

The police often offer cautions in cases where they know there is not enough evidence to secure a conviction. So if you refuse a caution in these cases, the case will simply be dropped. The caution is offered so that the police can officially say the crime has been cleared and dealt with. But many people accept cautions when they are innocent, because of fear of going to court.

If you're innocent (or guilty come to that) and arrested on suspicion of committing a crime it would be pretty foolish not to accept the services of a duty solicitor (if you don't have your own solicitor) that is offered when being booked into custody and which is free. If said solicitor recommended that you accept a caution, you would be pretty foolish not to accept that advice. It would also be unwise to assume the police don't have sufficient evidence to take to court...

Two examples of ridiculous complaints I'm referring to.

First one (years ago) lady complained about me because I wouldn't allow her to speak to her husband while I was dealing with him in a police vehicle after almost colliding with our car after the ran a red light. That was the old days then the inspector had a word with her and it was resolved.

My most recent complaint was when a person was swearing at us in a busy street and we warned him about his conduct. He complained that we had warned him about his language when he was entitled to an opinion. We advised him he was more than welcome to have that opinion but just not to swear at us. Complain now on my record.

That's the type of complaint I'm referring to. Not incivility, theft, excessive force etc.

Yes some of the public are shits and will make complaints about ridiculous stuff.

A caution is immediately 'spent' and so would not show up on a normal DRB check and doesn't affect job or visa applications, etc.
The only time it might register, but still shouldn't be taken into account, would be for top security jobs such as military or police.

Ok this is slightly different but bare with me, recently a wild dove befriended my mother and local residents in the close that she lives in, all the children loved to see it, it would sit on their hands and heads, anyway to cut a long story short a lady took the bird and put it in a bird sanctuary but refuses to say which one. I was told who the lady was and wrote her a really polite letter asking if she would kindly reveal the whereabouts of the Dove so that l could take the children to see it, the next thing I know is l get a visit from the police for harassment, but it was only one polite letter. I'm shocked

@janty it shows up on an enhanced DBS check. Scout and guide leaders, teachers, carers, nurses and any one working with children or the vunerable all have enhanced DBS checks not just top security jobs.

coolmint I did indeed post the bit you've quoted above, but I also said, underneath that in the same post, that the claim doesn't match what some folk are telling us has happened and that I'd like to know the reason for that mismatch

So actually I was agreeing with you ...

Just wanted to add that if anyone checks the data published by the ministry of justice (rather than reading emotive articles) you will find that stop & searches are conducted in far higher numbers in cities (likely because there is a higher police presence there) you will also notice that ethnic population percentages vary widely throughout the country (rural areas are almost all white British) but the stop & search by ethnicity can only be compared to the percentages of that ethnicity in that specific area for the most accurate numbers of any racial motivation. At the moment we are comparing it to the total population percentages for the whole country which completely skews the statistics.

(FYI I do believe racism is alive in 2017, but I also have a problem in inaccurate reporting)

Useful thanks!

Good advice from OP & Vicar.

What I will be saying to my DCs is: look past the immediate embarrassment/inconvenience of an arrest.

It is easy to see that a caution might seem like the easiest option especially if the alternative is waking parents in the night, admitting to being somewhere or doing something they disapprove of. Of course if my DCs woke me up to tell me they had been arrested then I would be annoyed but I would also be worried for them and want them to make the best decision not the expedient decision.

the next thing I know is l get a visit from the police for harassment, but it was only one polite letter.

Even if it was a less than polite letter, or a downright shirty one, that would not be harassment - though it might be something else in the latter case - harassment needs to be at least two occasions. OTOH, the police might have been letting you know so that you didn't continue into what would be harassment. I guess their manner would tell you that.

Police do warn that it is a record of guilt likely to be disclosed for 5 years and for certain offences longer on enhanced record search. Custody sergeant reads from a standard form about this when you sign for a caution
It may also affect chances of using fast track Visa app to USA.
Re how do you fight didn't know drugs in bag, you have to be knowingly in possession. Not knowing is a defence which you raise in interview and give evidence about at trial.

Pickleypickles you don't have to be disobeying the law to be stopped and searched....

Absolutely no prob, coolmint ... wish I had a quid for each time I do it myself!!

My ex-husband’s girlfriend made a point of parading past my house in order to provoke me. This was during their 18-month affair and while he was still living in the marital home. I knew about the affair. I happened to see her and shouted out something rude out of the window. She complained to the police and i was arrested and charged with harassment. When i suggested she might choose to avoid my proximity, the arresting officer said she had done nothing wrong and could walk where she wanted. I accepted a caution but regret it to this day. I should have forced them to charge me and the b1tch to go to court and give evidence.

I got offered a caution once - I hit my teenage son with a bit off a hoover to stop him assaulting me and my two year old twins. After it happened I called the police as he’d run off. I explained the situation and they had no issue but school saw the bruise it left and had to involve SS and police. I was arrested for assaulting a minor with a weapon. Because I was doing a teacher training course, I sought legal advice and refused a caution. They bailed me for six weeks and I left the training course. The charges were dropped eventually. It happened ten years ago, but I shudder to think what may have happened had I not refused it. I’m a social worker in a child protection team now, and there’s no way I’d have been able to train with a caution of that nature on my record.

Early on in my career - where the police can occasionally be involved - I was told to never accept a caution. So YANBU

Exactly @trashcanjunkie

You did no wrong in that scenario- hope it worked out ok

Sorry @Smudge100 wonder if you can change it at all? A criminal record for a human response seems stupid x

@ChaosAD what about those occasions where the police seek a caution knowing they have such little evidence as to ascertain a conviction and therefore want you to ACCEPT a caution?

1. I hope the smug and naive who believe that the law abiding do not need the OP’s advice have taken note of Trashcan and Smudge’s stories.
2. Interesting and cogent perspective on stop and search stats, but are they accurate? Are the stats not done on an area basis? Ok, anecdotal, but odd that in tne 6 years I was with ExH, Black, he was stopped regularly, in a highly mixed area, and that in 30 years driving in exactly the same area I have never been stopped ONCE.
3. I have so much sympathy for the police. They do a great job in the worst of circumstances. They get the worst of the worst members of society. They deal with the sad, the tragic, the heartbreaking and the grim. They are brave; the off duty guy who tackled the London Bridge terrorists. But some look on young people and black people as trouble, and act accordingly. So many examples in my work. Praise where it’s due, and at the same time be cautious about cautions.

@brotherphil yes maybe, just seemed so ridiculous and a waste of police time

A female friend was, wrongly, given a verbal "warning" under the Protection from Harassment Act over the telephone by a (male) police officer over 170 miles away on the back of a carefully crafted tissue of lies, distortions & gross exaggerations by a highly manipulative & fractured man who had asked her to help him. He had lost his career as a result of a stroke & also had a head injury but was able to camouflage his abhorrent behavioural problems & appear "normal" in structured situations (for which he could prepare), for limited periods of time. In the words of his father he was "very, very bitter & mixed up". In the words of his "friend" he was "obsessive, like a dog with a bone, a complete & utter nightmare with aberrant behaviours." In his own words he was "a complete mental fuck up as a result of a stroke". He was dictatorial even with the police whom he fooled, completely. Police made repeated "cock ups" followed by cover ups. They treated her like pond life & have put her through 14 years of hell. Between them they wrecked her reputation, career, tore apart her family & destroyed her health.
(Quite apart from naming her as a "suspect" on "intelligence" files. Beware also that Enhanced CRB searches can enable Police to spread their lies/defamation to potential employers - one does not have access to what has been written.)
Why did he do it? Because he'd raped her. To get away with it he set her up & discredited her - he made false & malicious allegations against her. He played the victim to the hilt. He portrayed the true victim as the perpetrator, & vice versa. His "victim impact statement" was pure psychological projection & particularly sickening. When she read it she was physically sick.
She is "middle class" & was employed as a solicitor when he raped her.
In the words of Mark Twain: "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes".

And: "Truth is stranger than fiction - because fiction has to make sense".

Divisionbelle - what would you be charged with if you had someone else's ID? (Not being goady - genuine question)

To those in the know... If you are offered a caution, do you have to accept it there and then or it's rescinded or does the option remain whilst you're waiting for a lawyer? Thanks OP for this thread.. it has been very interesting!