Should I have my brother sectioned?

[AWorldGoneTopsyTurvy]

This isn’t really an AIBU issue but I don’t know how much traffic the MH boards get, especially on a Saturday night. It’s a hell of a back story but I might as well be thorough. I’ve NC’d for this but parts of the story might ring bells for people who’ve read my previous threads.

My brother is really starting to worry me. He has a variety of MH problems including Bipolar Disorder and schizophrenia. He’s been prescribed lithium and was having CBT sessions with a CPN. He also has a bad alcohol problem and a history of self harm, and has overdosed a few times in the past.

We aren’t particularly close, he lives a few hundred miles away from me and I haven’t seen him since the day of my Dad’s funeral which was almost 3 years ago. He’s NC with my Mum and her side of the family (that’s a whole other story), and as a result ended up not coming to my wedding in the summer.

He has 4 kids with 2 women, and split up with his gf (Mum of the youngest two) about 6 months ago, after almost 9 years together. The Mum of the elder two got married a few months back.

He contacted me out of the blue today- he’s still been living with his ex since they broke up, and he told me that he’s got a new place to live and is moving at the end of the month. He’s stopped taking his meds and has stopped seeing the CPN.

His messages are really worrying me. I don’t think he’s been drinking as usually when he has they’re a bit more rambling and messy. Some of the things he’s said-

“I started self harming again. Only once. Haven’t done that for years.”

“I’m not wired right”

“I’ve got lost in life I think”

“Pretty sure I’m destined for a life of fucked up, it hasn’t been easy for either off us. So so sorry I don’t come to your wedding, just couldn’t handle it. My bad for not being strong”

“I’ve created another broken home”

“I don’t handle stuff like you. Damage could be the outcome from this. It’s all fucked”

“I’ve tried to have faith for years, I have suicidal thoughts every week and no matter what meds I take the voices are still there. What more can I do?”

I really don’t know how to help him. I don’t drive and don’t have any money at the moment as I was made redundant two months ago and don’t start my new job til next week. I really do think he could be a danger to himself. I don’t want to speak to his ex about it as he’ll see that as me going behind his back, and anyway they’re not together anymore so really she shouldn’t have to be involved. Should I have him sectioned? Can I do that from so far away? And how would I go about it?

No you can't have him sectioned. He can only be sectioned after this has been agreed by various health professionals. It is always the last resort.

You could speak to his ex and speak to his GP. If you think he is going to do anything drastic then you should think about calling emergency services. However, I think you will find that services will do very little until he reaches rock bottom even then they may do little. If your brother is judged to have capacity to make his own decisions, even bad ones that put him at risk, then there is not a lot that they can do.

I would however be concerned that there are children in the house if your brother is that unstable. That would warrant a call to social services for me.

I'm sorry that you are having to deal with this, it's very hard. I wish you luck

In fact, after re-reading your post I think a call immediately to social services are required. Those poor kids. God knows what they have seen and heard. If your brother is off his meds and is drinking then he could be a grave risk to them. Please do something.

His ex is a sensible woman, she wouldn’t have the kids around him if he is drinking. Which again, I don’t think he is right this minute.

With MH, unless there is a 'crisis' (I.e. police involvement, prof opinion that harm is imminent etc.), it needs to be the person suffering from MH issues that sections or seeks help themselves.

I would seriously encourage him to seek help himself and to return to his GP to try and sort a treatment plan. Do you know why him and his gf split? Was it to do with the MH?

You could contact the crisis team in his area.

Jamboree I have done, and have suggested trying counselling as opposed to CBT.

They split over a combination of things, largely to do with his drinking I think.

There is some helpful info here: www.mindcharity.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/are_you_worried_about_someones_mental_health_factsheet.pdf

It's not just his drinking around the children that is worrying. It is that he has two serious mental health conditions that will affect his behaviour. You mention self-harm, suicidal ideation and that he is hearing voices. Can you not see that someone who is so unstable would be a risk to children?

His ex won’t have them around if he’s in a bad way, she’ll have taken them to her parents.

Second Ludos advice, you can't have him sectioned, however you should alert the relevant agencies and they will set things in motion if required. It's a legal/medical process and requires agreement by medical professionals, not just your say so. It's not something done lightly - but if the doctors believe that he's refusing treatment and it's putting him or others at risk it's an option they may have to explore. Remember it's for his safety, not punitive so don't feel guilty if it happens.

It is his exes business if they share children, they are already involved and you should make them aware, especially if he's still sharing a house with one of them.

If you believe he's at immediate risk - if you have any doubts at all - call 999 or 111.

You know where he's living so it should be straightforward to find out which health authority he's in - try googling and finding the number of their crisis team. An 'emergency psychiatric assessment' sounds as if it is required if he's having suicidal thoughts and is off his meds - if you do contact the community psychiatric team use this term. MIND have excellent advice here: www.mind.org.uk/information-support/guides-to-support-and-services/crisis-services/emergency-support/#.WhC9qmXfWK0

Dont be afraid to over react, he needs help and the sooner he gets it the better. The earlier intervention takes place the better.

Either way he’s not actually at home at the moment, he’s somewhere else with work. I know which county he’s in but not where exactly.

I would also suggest calling one of the MH charities for advice. If the kids are out of the house then they are safe, at least. You could maybe encourage him to go back to the GP or any other MH professional he has seen in the past.
And I'm sorry you are having to deal with this. I have/had (she no longer speaks to me) a friend with serious, complex MH issues and there were times I was very worried about her but as I was neither her partner nor a relative there was nothing I could do. It's very hard.

I do remember your previous posts 💐

I would ring his ex first of all. See if he’s been like this for a while or not. If he has been, there’s less cause to panic. You might just be getting all of it suddenly because they’ve split up & he can’t ‘rant’ at her anymore.

I know they’ve split up, but it doesn’t mean you can’t talk to her about him & she is already involved because he’s her kids Dad & someone she probably still loves, just can’t live with while he’s like this.

It’s hard 🌷

Can you talk to him or just message support? Sounds like he is reaching for support and has some insight. It's clearly going to end up with the doctor but better he volunteers for help than leaves it till crisis point. Can you speak to his ex, she may have the measure of the situation. Don't panic, it's hard to be so far away but he has help available, and should not stop medication suddenly. Be calm, I hope he comes through this ok.

When she asked if she should have him sectioned she’s not asking if she should section him herself - of course she can’t!

She can call his local mental health team/crisis team or social services to request an assessment. There’s a hierarchy of family members but he’s not in contact with his mum.

Police are only generally involved if it’s an emergency or he might be violent.

Call Rethink for advice on 0300 5000 927 Mon - Fri.

*ie assessment under the Mental Health Act.

Your intentions are good and genuine here but you can't just 'have someone sectioned' even if you think that's best because look at it from the NHS' perspective, who are you to just command someone is locked up? Someone who abused me in childhood tried to have me sectioned maliciously and failed to do so in the past out of fear I would report the abuse (multiple times) and I avoided being sectioned until I was able to get away from this person. An independent assessment has to be conducted which you could initiate if you made a concern for safety call to the police to check on him but you can't physically be there while he's being assessed or try to influence the people who will speak with him in any direction about whether or not they section him or take things any further. Street triage will speak with him and write up a letter about the discussion some days or weeks later (it will probably be somewhat inaccurate but will just sit on your primary care records). I've known people who've been sectioned long term and if a person is sectioned this is not a nice way to live. No-one will treat anything he says with anything other than scepticism and other patients will be intimidating and scary because they too are suffering and have issues. Whoever he sees as an inpatient he won't be able to see as an outpatient so he won't have the consistency there when he leaves after a month or however long. He may not have Internet access to pay his rent while he is sectioned. He may be evicted and have all his belongings/paperwork/passport/qualification certificates put out on the street while he is sectioned if he is evicted and then come out back to absolutely nothing and in a worse position than he was in before needing to re-obtain various paperwork. Your best bet is to see what he wants to happen. If he wants to be sectioned, help get the wheels moving. If he doesn't, send him money, help him, talk to him and be there for him. Don't wait for him to contact you, make the first move sometimes. If the two of you do decide sectioning is the best bet, have him send over his paperwork by recorded delivery to you so you can at least keep it safe.

Crisis Team won't come out unless there's a GP referral. Even then they might not come out. Calling the police initiates street triage/assessment. If he has injured himself at the time they come out they will take him to another location of an assessment under Section 136. This can lead onto other sections but it really depends on a lot of things.

SquirrelTail - I’m sorry to hear someone tried maliciously to section you (no-one is ever sectioned on a layperson’s say so, it has to be decided by a doctor and two mental health professionals/social worker.)

But your post is not helpful - if he is psychotic he needs to be assessed. From the texts he is experiencing auditory hallucinations (aka hearing voices). It’s not a good idea to leave it up to him to decide if he wants to be sectioned, if he is not well he is not thinking clearly.

It’s better to contact the people I listed above, they will assess him and decide if he needs to be sectioned. OP can make sure his rent is paid if necessary.

The police are really a last resort in an emergency.

I've been in a similar situation with a family member and I would make "anonymous" calls to the police, if always be honest with them as to who I was but not to let the relative know it was me calling and let them know about it all kicking off at home or the threats of killing themselves/hurting someone.

Sometimes they would go out and chat and calm the situation, sometimes they would involve social work because of the children and a couple of times the relative ended up sectioned.

It was for us always for the best in those situations and since medicines have changed we've been eight years since any drama and do lovely things together now.

Crisis Team won't come out unless there's a GP referral

It depends on the area.

But OP can contact his GP and request an assessment from them if necessary.

Don't call the police unless he's about to jump. They will inflame the situation. Gp, cpn or crisis team. Ppl closer than you know his history and situation. Get support for yourself and try to support him if you can. Good luck. Talk to his children's mother(s).

Good advice Missingstreet

I’m off to bed, good luck OP.

Given his messages I would Contact his ex in the morning and see if she knows where he is - if he's feeling suicidal in a hotel somewhere that could be particularly dangerous with easy access to alcohol, and any barriers to self harm such as the kids being around removed. If all else fails contact his work, they have a duty of care.

Remember he's told you how he's feeling - it's not your imagination, and bipolar and schizophrenia is not going to miraculously get better without intervention. Do not feel bad about being worried or causing a 'fuss'. Don't feel guilty for doing what you can to get him out of the awful place he's in.

Check in regularly with him and if you can't raise him dial 999. Treat it as you would someone with an unstable heart condition or diabetes - don't minimise because its mental health.

TatianaLarina, well in my case the police took the side of the person who phoned up because to them that person was a member of the public (who abuses children and puts on a good act of being all concerned, deflecting his own abusive actions onto others involved with the child) and not the mental patient. He also convinced the officer with the street triage team who he was even able to speak to and managed to worm his way into but not the person who actually assessed me. She didn't speak with him but she spoke with the officer on the triage team who had done so while the contents of the letter were false/discrepancies sitting on record I was not sectioned and was able to go ahead and report the abuse later on.

Anyway, for this poster I think GP or CPN could be good bets but it really depends how soon he can get an appointment. If there is a months' wait for the appointment that will be no good. Calling police is a quick way to get an assessment carried out but it really depends how desperate the situation is. At least the OP knows she has these various options and how things are likely to pan out.