Getting 5 year old to sleep

[Ansumpasty]

Could do with some parenting advice!
My 5yo DS has never been able to fall asleep on his own. He didn't take a dummy and couldn't self soothe and was the type of baby/toddler who would vomit and choke etc on the rare occasion I tried leaving him alone to fall asleep.
I have to sit with him for up to 2 hours every evening until he falls asleep, with him constantly checking that I'm still there.
Over the summer holidays, we tried leaving him to fall asleep on his own (after bath, story and goodnight hugs, etc). We tried for the entire 6 weeks and every night, it was taking him so long to fall asleep, with crying etc. He went to bed at 7 would fall asleep between 10-11pm. I was not willing to do this on a school night, obviously, so gave up and went back to sitting with him every night after making 0 progress.

It's gotten to the stage that it's not even helping him that I'm right next to him! However, going to bed at 7 and falling asleep at 9 is still preferable to 10/11pm, which it would be if I left him alone.
My DH works away and it's becoming too much for me to sit next to him all evening. My younger DD falls asleep on her own, no problem, so I don't know what I'm doing wrong!
He's a massive worrier and lies there worrying about anything and everything (and then worrying about the fact he can't sleep) which isn't helping.

Anyone been in a similar situation and have any tips for me? Or, AIBU to even make an issue out of it and just sit with him every night as they're only young for a short time, etc.
Thanks!

Our DS worries a lot at night. We have audiobooks for him to listen to which help. He also has the option of sharing with his sister if he doesn't want to be alone which he occasionally does.

We also allow him special staying up time but only if he has had enough sleep the night before. It is an easy reward to give and there is a logical reason for when he doesn't get it which means it is not about being punished.

Does he talk to you about what he is worrying about?

Stars that shine on the ceiling. We have a battery powered turtle. They can count them or find the constellations....

My daughter likes audio book or music on. She cant go to sleep when completley silent so we do bath and book then she has audio book on. I also make sure before bed time she has time to tell me about her day and of anything worrying her. She also likes the book the rabbit who could not fall asleep and sam the sleep sheep. You read in a certain way, they are both written by sleep experts. It works every time for daughter

Not really and if he does it's almost as if he makes something up on the spot. He will say something like, 'what if there is a fire in the night?' or something like that.

I may try audio books again. I tried in the summer with both stories and children's night time relaxation music. I would presume he was asleep and then he would stroll into the living room after 2 hours saying, 'the stories have finished.'

tailendcharlie

We have the stars light already, unfortunately!

bookworm
Great, I will pop the library today and see if they have either of those books!

Oh god this is going to be dd

No experience with a 5 year old but general advice for worriers is to learn to switch off/distract. For myself I fall asleep listening to podcasts or reading. It can also help to write concerns down, I don't know if you could tailor that to drawing for someone so young, but the theory is you sort of get it out your brain by completing it if that makes sense.

I read a great method of teaching kids to lull themselves to sleep if your ds goes for it. You get them to lie down with their eyes closed and ask them to pick a character/person tell you what they're wearing, what they look like, pick somewhere they are going - again get them to describe it in detail, ask how they'll get there and what they'll do etc every step asking details so they're imagining it. Then you basically tell the story back to them while they're quiet. It teaches them to daydream in a way. I can see how it wouldn't work for all children but it's worth a punt.

could you try worry dolls? They helped my middle child - chronic non sleeper with anxiety - she could tell them her worry's at bed time and they would solve them as she slept

also I used reward charts for staying in her bed

I wouldn't worry overly about not falling asleep - as long as he is in his room I'd let him read etc - he may go through a period of being tired at school but he may then begin to fall asleep earlier - maybe he's just a nightowl?

www.amazon.co.uk/Worry-Dolls-Set-colorful-bag/dp/B007MAI25Q?tag=mumsnetforum-21

DD also used to play the alphabet game to distract her and help her drift off - just pick a topic and work from a-z (football teams, girls names, tv programs, animals etc)

He sounds scarily like my DD who is 4 and is only just able to settle herself.

We made her bedroom a really nice environment to be in. Let her choose what she wanted in it and where it went. Bought her a relaxing projector nightlight thing, read her a story and gave a cuddle and then she listens to an audio book. Started off telling her we'll be up to check on her in 10 mins and now she doesn't expect that.

So far so good touch wood

Of course there's times she needs a drink/heard a noise/needs the toilet...for the 5th time but in the whole she's pretty good now and we just stick with it. I wouldn't necessarily worry about how long it's taking him to get to sleep, just keep going. It's practice to be able to switch off like that and use new coping strategies and he'll sleep if he's tired.

I wish I had some good ideas for you but I don't. My 11yr old son will fall asleep and 45-60 mins later will call out, get up, cry etc. He's been doing it on and off for about 5 years now and the stress that it creates is becoming really hard. I have no advice but if you have to do that for another 5 years you'll end up getting really pissed off.
They may grow up quickly but it doesn't feel like it when each night there is no time for you.
I really hope someone comes along wth some excellent advice for you.

Thanks, everyone :)

Lots of good ideas so I will try them all, one by one

aldi
Oh no, I can feel your frustration. Is SO hard not to lose patience, especially when it's getting close to the 2 hour mark (and your phone dies and you then fall asleep and wake up on their floor at 11pm with carpet marks on your face and a sink full of dishes ).

I hope you also figure something out to help him!

I work with young kids in mental health setting.

Try a worry box. Every night he (or you helping him) writes down his worries on bits of paper and post them into the worry box (shoe box with a hole cut in the top). The idea is he gets them out of his head and doesn’t have to think about them anymore.

If he is very anxious in general consider GP for Camhs assessment.

Put him in bed with you. Easier life and he'll grow out of it.

Ds used to shout me back dozens of times. What does your ds love? What could he save towards? I gave ds 20p every night he got himself off to sleep (was 18 years ago!!) and after a few weeks he put it towards a remote controlled car!! Rest paid for by happy dm!!

zebedebe
I will make a worry box for him today and might get him some of those little worry dolls.

Anna
He's now in my bed and it still isn't making any difference! The star lamp and teddies have been moved through to my room but still, he's awake!

justbooked
I tried the bribing and rewards. It turned into an anxious 'but am I still going to get Pokemon cards????' at 10pm, then worrying about that.

Melatonin? Has to be prescribed by paediatrician but I would want my child to see someone anyway if they were as anxious as your ds seems to be...

Maybe worth asking as a last resort if other methods aren't working.

DS1 is 6 and I cannot leave him. Fortunately it is now only 20 Minutes ish but when younger it was 2 hours.

I've tried bribery but he just gets upset at the idea of failing and gets even more wound up.

I'll try the worry box next.