To wonder if we should expect anything of the NHS?

[HickDead]

I don't mean this to be a goody post but I seriously am wondering if I ABU to expect anything but basic lifesaving treatment from the NHS and if I should maybe invest in better private cover.

I have been suffering from pain for at least the past year and I haven't even been called for any diagnostic scans yet. The pain is so bad now that I've been signed off work but still no urgency seems to be attached to my referral. I hear similar complaints from others and wonder if I'm genuinely being too demanding and should just pay myself for better private health cover.

Just wondering what others' thoughts and experiences were?

Not sure how getting private works with anything pre-existing - not covered usually so how would that help?

Personal private insurance doesn't cover pre existing, company cover can cover and ours does.

So did the GP refer routinely then upgrade it to urgent? It sounds as if the dept has then triaged the referral themselves and downgraded it back to routine as appropriate.

If you can afford to have the tests you want privately then go for it if it'll help.

I think non urgent things understandably take less priorty than emergencies. I can't fault the nhs.

My 13 month old is poorly. Rang for an appointment at 3.30pm yesterday, gp saw him 5pm. Called 111 at 1.30am who decided he needed an ambulance. Got him to hospital and stable so home in 4 hours. Rang at 8.30 for another appointment which was within the hour. Gp made him an extra appojntment for 5pm and one tommorow to keep an eye. Their care has kept him out of hospital!

Things are not perfect in the private sector either . I’ve been in both a new private hospital and a couple of NHS hospitals this year . Fortunately the NHS hospital where I had my longer stay was all private rooms , and they were nicer than the private hospital rooms . The private hospital also managed to cock up a particular blood test I needed twice . On another evening the NHS probably saved my life , and at the end of the day whatever private care you have in an emergency situation it’s the NHS that you rely on in the first instance .

I would also add I literally have the worlds best GPs , walk in clinic every weekday when you are guaranteed to be seen and bloods etc usually done within the week .

non-urgent non-specific pain is incredibly difficult to resolve, and is not really what the NHS does best - because it is not life threatening, A&E, specific like a broken leg or pregnancy, and is somewhat minor.

You might try private - but the private system in the US is terrible too, and they deny coverage all the time unless you write lots of arsey letters (particularly on something like 'pain' because it is time consuming and expensive to cover) so don't expect the Savoy.

The reality is you might just need to go private and pay rather than try to claim on insurance.

God it’s nothing to do with funding, its mismanagement of the funding that is an issue and politicians being involved.

It needs to be turned over to private suppliers with proper managers managing and proper nurses nursing. I worked on a unit where a nurse who started as a HCA and worked their way up to management was running a unit and a huge budget with fuck all clue how to run a business which effectively was what they were being tasked with doing.

Anyone who can afford private healthcare but uses the NHS instead is an entitled CF
That is hilarious. Are we allowed to take public transport if we can afford a cab?
Or send your children to state school if we could afford private?

We usually pay for to have diagnostics done privately. Not though insurance, just buying the tests required through Bupa or whoever is best/nearest.

You definitely don't need to have private health insurance to get private treatment. In fact there is little point in getting insurance now you are ill.

Insurance is for things that might happen but might not happen. Your illness is a certainty. Therefore you can expect insurance covering a pre-existing condition will cost more than the actual treatments.

I work for the NHS and have a (fairly basic) private health insurance policy.

I think generally the NHS is still excellent at treating serious/life threatening emergencies, but can be very poor at diagnosing and promptly treating less acute/ chronic conditions. So the policy I have will cover me for diagnostic investigations and treatment for these less acute situations.

The way I look at it financially, is how much money I would lose whilst on long term sick, ie loss of unsocial hours payment, half pay after 6 months, no pay after 12 months, and how this compares to the insurance premium/ excess. I think it's worth it.

Welfare systems like the NHS are supposed to cover the shortfall and provide a safety net for the most vulnerable members of our society. Anyone who can afford private healthcare but uses the NHS instead is an entitled CF and are directly to blame for the completely terrible quality of healthcare that the NHS provides. Please be socially responsible and pay your way if you can afford it.

Tbh, I kind of agree with this. The whole of the modern welfare state is just miles away from Bevan's principles. Its not sustainable its current form.

Please don't think private care is all that!!
The aftercare is pretty much non existent...got a problem after paying £5k for an op? Go to a and e....

God it’s nothing to do with funding, its mismanagement of the funding that is an issue and politicians being involved.

Indeed, it's grossly inefficient and it's administration and working practices are barely fit for the 20th century let alone this one. You could treble it's funding (like Labour did) and it would only be marginally better as most of the extra funding just goes into the black hole.

The pressure the NHS is under means the demands made on it just can’t be met. If I could afford to go private I absolutely would. I think they do manage to treat those in a really serious state (cancer, organ failure or severe damage, accidents etc). But if like me what you have luckily isn’t going to kill you but is severely crapping up your quality of life then waiting is the name of the game. There’s only so much they can do quickly.

I am always touched that despite the stress staff are under, all the nurses, assistants, admin people in the various clinics and at various tests I have had, a kind, caring and helpful. I honestly don’t know how they manage to do it quite honestly.

Anyone who can afford private healthcare but uses the NHS instead is an entitled CF and are directly to blame for the completely terrible quality of healthcare that the NHS provides. Emmm nope, jog on!

OP I am with you, I personally would consider the NHS as emergency care only.

I am not anti NHS, just have no confidence in it.

I have had good care with the NHS.

However, my nana was diagnosed 4 weeks ago with lung cancer. She's still awaiting a biopsy which is scheduled next Wednesday with a follow up due the Wednesday after to discuss results.

She's sat at home, not eating or sleeping through pure fear. Being sent home after being told that and waiting that long is fucking shit. The thing is, they sent her four letters - two appointment dates and two letters cancelling them.

So cross about this whole situation. It honestly feels they've sent her home because of her age she's not worth it

**Anyone who can afford private healthcare but uses the NHS instead is an entitled CF and are directly to blame for the completely terrible quality of healthcare that the NHS provides

Ok then, so under your brand of socialism, there should be no rich people, we should all be equally poor.

I have experience with private medical insurance and like pp said you need to be very specific in what you want- so many people take out cover try and claim and don't realise that preexisting isn't covered because they chose the cheapest option.

In personal cover (so for you and your family not through your employer) underwriting is usually full medical- so you disclose everything and the underwriters decide what may cost too much and wither to exclude it form your cover or not and moratorium which excludes all preexisting conditions as a blanket ban.

However to self fund yourself then yes you will see a consultant in the next few days probably and the tests will start quickly

My husband is French and their system is noticeably better from a results point of view. DH always returns to France for anything serious. His friends in France who had cancer got picked up very early treated and got better. People we know in England not picked up until stage 4 and dead within the year. Obviously it could be just different factors but the one picked up in France was just as he had a temp 4 times in a year they tested him. I would like think they would pick that up here but not convinced, I see many locum doctors, different one each time often. The UK cancer survival figures are the worst in Western Europe. My GP said if there's any chance you've got a risk of cancer get private asap.

Having said that I haven't tried private.

I have cover with Benenden. It is about £10 a month and there are no exclusions for pre-existing conditions. They offer discretionary private care if you have been on an NHS waiting list for too long. There is a 6 month qualifying period in which you can't claim though.

I have had very mixed experiences - I find that the care is great once you get it, but the waiting lists are so long for some things that I have gone private. The consultants seem very aware of the problems and have referred me back to the NHS for tests and treatment. It is apparently the clinical appointments that are worst affected rather than tests in my area. I often ask which hospitals have the shortest waiting times when I make appointments through Choose and Book (which means I am now under 3 NHS hospitals for various things!)

We do need an honest debate about what the NHS is for and what it should be expected to do, but too often it ends up with either 1), “Butbutbut intheUSAit’sterrible!” and/or 2) “Butbutbut lifesaving! Whatifyou’reinaroadaccident?!”

I used to be a big unconditional fan of the NHS. It’s probably notable that I never used it , being a healthy sod - I wasn’t even signed up to a GP for 16 years - apart from a couple of bashes I took to A&E. Recently toddler DD had to spend an overnight - she’s had a couple of A&E visits in the last year or so - and this is an area I still consider the NHS does well.

But. In the last 5 years or so I’ve had a run of bad health, and the scales have fallen from my eyes. Long-term things that are a bit hard to fix, aren’t going to kill you but are making you miserable - are a bit of a black hole, it seems. I’ ve had a GP lie about a referral. I’ ve been told (by a different GP) that 2 scan requests for the same person would probably have seen the hospital bin one - and no, she wouldn’t attach any urgency to the re-request for the 2nd that was now over a month overdue. I’ ve been told (several times) to wait for a ring back within x days - never received, no hint of an apology. This has happened with family and friends too. As someone has mentioned, while allowance has to be made for genuine cock-ups or slapdashery, some of it looks like demand management by weeding those out who aren’t persistent enough - and that’s just wrong.

OP, I think I would go private in your situation. It sounds like you don’t even know the source of your pain? - am guessing not knowing ‘why’ must be making things worse. It’s fine to pay out of pocket - it’s how I did my private treatment, never had medical insurance in my life - assuming those covered otherwise healthy, and of course as others have said even extended coverage won’t necessarily cover you for this or ‘new’ conditions.

People who think private is better are kidding themselves and is not always the case. Some people may pay for a private consultation and then have the treatment done on the NHS as many doctors work for both.
I work for the NHS and have seen both good and bad in both NHS and the private sector.
From personal experience, my husband had a knee op privately which Gp refused to refer to an NHS orthopaedic team for until my husband said I am paying privately and then he jumped at the chance.
From a negative perspective, my daughter aged 5 at the time had hearing problems and was referred to a ENT consultant but due to the waiting times at that particular times, we went to see a private consultant at BUPA (she was age 5) who insisted she have grommets fitted. This was done in a NHS hospital (due to being a child) not a private ward but was paid for by the insurance company as a private patient.
As a result of having the grommets she has now a permanent perforated ear drum which was due a grommet that didn’t come out by itself. At the time the consultant felt my other daughter should have grommets and wanted to do immune tests due to having a lot of colds through the year (3 year old). At the time I refused.
Since then I learned that a) some kids don’t need grommets and as their ear canal grows hearing improves and b) my second daughter is very healthy and certainly didn’t need tests. Both teenagers now.
Some private consultants just want money and not what is best for you!