Ice pick lobotomies...

[diddlemethis]

To treat mental illness in the 1940s/50s orbital lobotomies were performed in their thousands. These grim operations consisted of an ice pick being inserted through the corner of the eye, which then broke the scull, and then the pick was used to mash the frontal lobe of the brain.

This was considered the best and kindest thing for folk suffering from mental illnesses.

AIBU, (definitely being a GF!) to think we will look back at the giving of cancer drugs and neutering children, on the understanding that it’s the correct and best thing to do, with the same horror?

It’s crackers. Anyone who can’t see potential problems with this change of law coming soon, is not paying attention, and anyone advocating this is complicit in genital mutilation, at best.

Yes I agree - chemo is brutal and when we have something better we will look back in horror

Don't get why you're asking. Maybe my post is a bit confusing. I meant I thought babies were being steralised, if that's at all possible.

If my son wants to wear a pink dress and make up and call himself Brenda he can do so with my blessing

But a lot of people who aren't comfortable with trans don't want boys dressed as girls in any of the girls only spaces and as he grows up he will never be accepted or welcomed in society. People will have even stronger feelings about him being a man dressed as a woman when he is an adult. What if he has lots of counselling and it doesn't make him happy to live as a man?

THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT TRANSING KIDS, not about cancer patients.

The confusion is because the healthy kids are being given cancer drugs to delay puberty.

I can see why it’s confusing, badly worded OP (sorry) and because it is madness.

Mini, child won’t be given counselling if proposed law change goes through, because to not instantly agree with child’s thought makes the councillor guilty of conversion therapy.

Counselling is going to be cut off.
(Dark pun intended).

Uuuuuuugh. We can keep all Trump posts to one thread - can we not keep all trans posts to one thread too? This is the second one today about this same topic.

These threads are just endless echo chambers. Nobody’s going to change their mind. It’s the same two dozen posters on either side, repeating themselves ad nauseum.

Peach please explain why you think this irreversible medical intervention is the only course of action, because I am genuinely not getting it.

Right now we can adopt a wait and see policy, supporting the child. That option is being taken away legally.

That’s why so many people (including Prof Brian Cox and Prof Robert Winston this week) are shouting about it.

I’m quite glad I’m not a wing walker, which is what I wanted to be age 10

And I am guessing that neither Professor Cox or Winston have formed their views from reading Mumsnet or Reddit.

"Papayamum

Don't get why you're asking. Maybe my post is a bit confusing. I meant I thought babies were being steralised, if that's at all possible."
Young children who have not developed or matured are being. Is that not shocking enough? How young do they have to be before it's wrong? Eight? Six? Four? Non verbal?

Especially needs if you would have needed to loose the arms and wear non functioning wings.
(Joke)

Dd who is a very sensible and mature eight has some odd ideas. Because she is a child.

If I had a very young child now if be forcing gender stereotypes on them every way I could. No son of mine would be playing with dolls.

@stealth why? Personal preference or because scared the trans brigade will grab them? I'm not joking; i do kind of think of them as kidnappers.

Yes that. When ten year old ds was tiny I encouraged him to play with dolls and tea sets. (he was never bothered, always into guns).. Now he'd be questioning his gender identity.

The more we talk about this again and again, (not sorry if “uggghhh” it is annoying you previous poster somewhere up thread.) The more likely people will start thinking about this rather than not.

For example stealth your lovely 8 year old, if they were to decide after a few hours on Reddit etc. That they were non conforming and should transition, if this goes through there would be diddly squat you could do to slow that down, you wouldn’t be able to have professional councillors talk to them about the why behind their feelings. Because that would be conversion therapy and not allowed.

stealth sorry do you have an 8 year old? Possibly conflicting posts there, you said after If you had a young child? Not relevant really.

can we not keep all trans posts to one thread too?

Children are being given harmful drugs which are effectively sterilising them. Gay people and women are essentially being erased. People with crippling gender dysphoria are being denied appropriate mental health support and leaving them even more vulnerable. A law is being debated right now in parliament which, if enforced, will be damaging to children, women, gay people and transsexuals alike.

So quite frankly, no, we should not just stick these discussions to one side. We should not just stick our fingers in our ears and pretend none of this is happening These discussions need to be had out in the open and we need to spread as much awareness as we can. People need to know what is happening and what we are getting ourselves into.

But a lot of people who aren't comfortable with trans don't want boys dressed as girls in any of the girls only spaces and as he grows up he will never be accepted or welcomed in society. People will have even stronger feelings about him being a man dressed as a woman when he is an adult. What if he has lots of counselling and it doesn't make him happy to live as a man?

The point should be that if he wants to wear a dress and call himself Brenda, he can/should be able to do that as a man. There’s no need to change ‘gender’ to do so. He wouldn’t need to be in woman only spaces.

Being truly born into the wrong body must be one of the most awful things to experience, and I truly feel for those who are genuinely going through it, but it’s becoming fashionable to say you’re transgender now. In my dds class (yr 10 state secondary) there are 6 students who identity as trans - 4 fttm and 2 mttf. I completely disagree that they should be given access to drugs and life changing surgery due to something they probably copied off of Instagram. The HcPs should be ashamed of themselves. They wouldn’t give liposuction to an anorexic/bulimic, why is this any different?

My original post was to try and highlight that whilst we are certain at any point that we are doing the best thing medically, with hindsight we have been repeatedly shown to be barbaric.

We are aghast at the notion of Lobotomies for 12 year olds, who are sad because their mum has died in the 1950s, (see original P) YET today its cool and progressive to recommend hysterectomies for 17 year old girls, who are unhappy to play along with the gender stereotype for their sex.

Forcing kids to live as the wrong gender is cruel.

And sterilizing kids before they've even had a chance to figure out who they are isn't cruel?

@user are those kids in your dds school on meds / preparing for treatment?

I mean if I had a toddler. Where some people would discourage boys n playing with dolls etc. I didn't at the time but I would now.
And I agree with you! My eight year old is very grown up and sensible but she's still a child. She should not be able even in a few years to make irreversible decisions about her body.
We don't let 17 year old get a tattoo.

You're comparing ice-pick lobotomies to medical treatments for transgender children

The only acceptable treatment for transgender children is appropriate therapy and time for them to be able to come to terms with their body. This is how has been done for years and seeing as the majority of children with gender dysphoria grow out of it, I would say this was a perfectly successful method.