Aibu to be massively panicking about a pup I bought yesterday? European passport

[Ohforgodsake000]

Very stupidly bought a dog yesterday who came with a pet passport issued in Latvia.
All vaccines were stamped in the book and micro chipping also in there.
Thought nothing Of it until I mentioned to a police friend who said this is one of the biggest scams going and he probably doesn't have any vaccines including rabies and threadworm which he could now transfer to my kids.
I feel sick with worry.
What a stupid idiot I am.
No vets will see him as he's not yet registered and its now emergencies only.

This thread is nuts!

I agree that the op has been foolish in her actions but she's already acknowledged that and some of the PPs slating her seem fairly misinformed themselves and by their own arguments could not be described as 'true animal lovers'.

What makes a 'good' breeder? If you look up the threads in the dog house board on here, it would seem only those that count are the ones that breed infrequently in order to secure a pup for themselves, to further the breed or are in the show or working arena. The rest of the litter are then sold. Demand far outstrips supply in this case.

Puppy farms are to be avoided at all costs but apparently 'designer crossbreeds' are entirely acceptable to secure certain traits (even though this is not guaranteed) and nearly all of these crosses are produced by puppy farms (it's one of the red flags) or backyard breeders and not 'proper' breeders since they are dedicated to their one breed.

Like it or not, most people secure their dogs from back yard breeders or puppy farms. I'm not saying that's ideal but it is the reality. Price is determined solely on how fashionable the breed is at the time including those with grotesque health problems.

The next best option would be to rescue but this has been criticised on the thread as rescues apparently have behavioural problems . From experience, rescuing in the U.K. is more difficult than you'd expect. There are some good reasons for this but also they are very particular about who they will rehome to, overly so in some cases, and people just end up buying a puppy when they would have been happy to adopt an unwanted dog. Many of the large breeds spend the vast majority of their lives stuck in shelters and kennels. Not all rescues are what they seem either despite their 'charity' status.

People turn a blind eye to animal cruelty all the time but claim to be animal lovers. Look at the meat trade for example. Face it, most of us are just trying our best to live our lives cruelty free but it happens and those passing judgement have probably funded or inadvertently been involved in animal cruelty. There's no need for this level of vitriol.

I agree with PPs that some form of licensing should be brought back in and some kind of controls on breeding. I know someone who bought a bulldog with the specific intention of breeding from her and sold the 5 puppies for £2k each. I don't agree with that at all.

The whole thing is a mess and needs looking at by the legislature.

silently have you not heard all of the hysteria about Eastern Europeans coming over here and stealing all of the jobs, getting council houses, nicking all the women and sending their benefits back home?

Indeed I have hear that, I lived in the UK when they used to say it about Asian people and West Indians before them but I wasn't aware that the those peoples' place of birth had become an offensive term. Horrible contractions yes but not the correct names for geographical regions.

Of course, if you don't want it used about you, that's you call and I respect that totally. However, I don't think you should assume it's a term of abuse until you have something else to go on or someone ignores your stated wish.

You won't find me arguing in favour of designer crossbreeds @NumberEight.

The reason there is this level of vitriol is because if everyone got pets responsibly, the puppy farming trade would be dead in the water. But every time someone like the OP buys a really expensive dog from a dodgy person with dodgy papers, it fuels the trade.

I agree that there should be licensing.

Silently, I don't agree I've been "fucking idiotic", I've agreed with you about almost everything except that I think it's completely unrealistic to think that in the real world good breeders would never ever advertise on the internet.

I agree you must be responsible when buying and selling and that it might be sensible for something to be put in place for potential buyers to show they are competent.

You still haven't pointed out what was so fucking idiotic about the circumstances I described but I think it's a real shame we couldn't discuss it sensibly - I think that tends to be the barrier which prevents this sort of thing being sorted out.

What makes a 'good' breeder? If you look up the threads in the dog house board on here, it would seem only those that count are the ones that breed infrequently in order to secure a pup for themselves, to further the breed or are in the show or working arena.

They're the only sort of breeder I'd buy from. I also wouldn't buy from anyone who keeps pups outside the home itself (I like mine home-reared so that they're used to things like hoovers and washing machines) or exercises them on a treadmill.

I've encountered more than one "reputable" show breeder who does both the above. Despite driving 250 miles to see a beautiful puppy, there was no way I'd buy from her.

Marmite, I went into great detail about why what you had done was wrong. I even made a list with bullet points for you. You've had your question about why horses are different answered three times and still go on asking it.

Advertising dogs and puppies on free sites further entrenches the idea that dogs are a disposable commodity. This is evidenced by the fact that you were unwilling to wait for a suitable cat from a rescue who would have vetted you and your other animals and only placed a suitable animals with you.

After you'd bypassed the rescue, for no reason than they'd made you wait, you'd bought a kitten that you weren't able to settle, then you gave it away instead of making the effort of find and pay for a behaviourist. It was easier and cheaper to just get another cat.

You didn't take it to a rescue because you felt that you were better able to home the animal than a trained professional. You didn't and don't, despite it being explained to you, seem to grasps the value of the skills and knowledge of trained professionals. You didn't take account of the animals emotional needs because it was a disposable commodity to you because you can buy another one from a free site.

As an aside, on both occasions I've bought from a good breeder as described by NumberEight. The reason we went for that particular dog breed was for working traits we were looking for and looked into the parents, saw certificates etc. In fact we reserved the puppy before birth. I don't know what I did wrong here but am hoping Silently can enlighten me!

Cross post.

No Silently, we didn't give away the kitten we bought from a good breeder. I have never said that. He settled just fine, thank you, and is perfect.

This was a different cat, and a different situation at a different time, with a cat more or less inherited. I recognise the value of professionals and have stated this multiple times, but I found a word of mouth home in the countryside, where the cat is very happy with an experienced cat owner. I'd have gladly taken him to the rescue if no suitable home had been found, but I'm glad in the end an ideal home came up first so that he wasn't stuck awaiting adoption for a long time, and we didn't add to the burden of a charity needlessly.

And I don't feel the need to justify waiting for a rescue cat to come up when I enquiried with several and they explained their's weren't suitable to be rehomed with a dog. I'm sure one would have come up, and no it wasn't an emergency, but I don't think it's morally injust to purchase an animal responsibly if you want to.

So I bought a kitten from a good breeder, and he has settled and is now a lovely cat.

Your bullet points were all to do with what rescues provide and had nothing whatsoever to do with the purchase scenariosI explained, and I agreed with you that rescues have more expertise. They also have limited resources and a lot of animals to rehome. I do donate to a charity monthly though, if it makes you feel better.

I have also said above that horses are different but if you'll care to read the context of my reply I was saying that my concern was that a blanket ban on ALL animal advertising would of course impact on the equine industry. That's different from me insisting it's the same thing, but that one measure to control one problem would to my mind have a knock on effect.

Phew!

Probably missing something here but why would anyone ever buy a dog or a cat from a breeder - just to have a fancy trendy style - when there are so many needing homes?

We got a puppy from a breeder because we had very specific requirements (terrier breed, wire coated so non-shedding, no more than 16" at the shoulder, no known health issues in the breed, adaptable, feisty and tough in temperament, long in the leg, high in stamina, intelligent, and lots more that I can't remember 19 years on). That narrowed it down a lot - I think we were left with borders and lakelands, and my ex didn't like borders (he had some odd notion that they look pugnacious).

Having settled on a lakeland, it took another 18 months to find one and we drove half the length of the country to get him. I've never regretted it for a minute, and our second lakie is now 12 years old.

It's pretty rare to find a lakeland in a rescue (most breeders will take back a dog that needs rehoming for any reason), but I wouldn't rule out rehoming one from a breeder.

Bloody hell, I was always a 'cat' person and reading this thread now I know why! My lovely poodle cross (shoot me once) came from an overseas charity online (shoot me again) and I couldn't be happier with her, even the vet commented that she was unlikely to have any health issues as the passport was full of records of various injections including rabies, maybe it was faked, but I doubt it. I would love to have re-homed from the UK, but sadly the criteria is too strict for the likes of me. Hope the vet visit was a success for the OP

Gosh, Marmite, that's almost as big a re-write as when the OP's mother in law went from being a veterinarian to a nurse to some kind of something else that isn't a nurse and has to buy her wormer from Pets At Home.

You don't think it's immoral to pick up an animal at a time that suits you, by whatever means possible. I think that action has many repercussions, some of which are supporting/funding/turning a blind eye to animal abuse.

The animal charity you donate to, have you checked their policy on pets being 'rehomed' via free ads? If you are going to continue to dismiss the views that have been put to you many, many times here, will you listen to them?

Silently, where is it a rewrite? It's a rewrite in your mind because you love to make assumptions, but it doesn't contradict anything I have said.

I said early on that I had had dogs and cats most of my life, so what led you to assume that the one cat I had rehomed must have been the same kitten I purchased from a good breeder by any of the standards on this thread (who had an online ad)? How on earth is that "by any means possible? Can you not see that you are twisting the situations for your own ends? I can't think why because we agree completely about the importance of responsible sourcing and ownership.

What else have I said that is contradictory? Please point it out to me.

Christ, if I wanted to get an animal by "any means possible", I'd not have taken a day off work each time to go and see the breeders and the homes I was buying from, research them etc - we even travelled a long distance to buy our dog. Neither were super expensive "designer" pets, nor super cheap pets acquired "by any means possible".

It seems you are now saying that it is injust to obtain pets by any other means other than a rescue? As all I've done is find good breeders.

I'm sure charities will have better things to do than discuss this thread with me but if I asked them "is it idiotic to buy a pet from a good reputable breeder, or rehome a pet to a suitable home that I have seen, with references, in the countryside" I can't imagine they'd say it is. They may say it is even better to rescue a pet, or be in position to CRB check, have intelligence on multiple purchases etc for rehoming and I don't disagree with that, but weighing up the circumstances of the family I met I think you'd also agree they aren't and wouldn't be using the cat as bait, or to farm (it's neutered). Should I call them now and say we've made a mistake and the cat must go and sit in a shelter for months instead?

I've explained why we didn't use rescues in both instances (wanted specific working dog traits) and many people do buy pets from reputable, responsible sources.

You've changed your argument again, Marmite, what you have been claiming in the thread until this point is that gumtree/free ads are a reasonable place to buy and sell animals. All of the animal charities seem to have an opinion on that on their websites, available for all to read.

My experience of U.K. rescues is that they use a network of home checkers who are volunteers although possibly some have dedicated staff to do this. They ask you a series of questions about your experience of dogs and your circumstances, send round the home checker who is primarily looking at how secure your garden is and that's it. There's no crb check involved as it costs too much.

I ended up adopting a dog from abroad as after a year of searching for a suitable uk rescue, which takes a lot of time to write a decent application, being home checked, matched, only to end up being disappointed as the dog was adopted by families living closer to the rescues.

Silently, have you ever searched for dog for adoption on pre loved et al? Loads of rescues actually use this as a platform themselves. Times are changing and it's the best place to get advertising exposure for their rescue dogs.

(The other thing you've claimed is that responsible breeders have many 'left over' dogs that they advertise on free ad sites as scoffed at the idea that decent breeders have long waiting lists.)

#8, some rescues do use it as a platform but I think that we can all see the difference between trying to offer an alternative to or even cut off the business of puppy farms. A rescue that advertises is still a rescue.

LOL, Silently.

I've not changed the argument. I'm explaining the circumstances by which I have acquired my pets to illustrate that a scenario where responsible breeders might use an online ad. Where on earth did I scoff at long waiting lists? I agreed (again) that many do, but all breeders start somewhere, some breed very infrequently etc and in our case all puppies were reserved except two, who were advertised online and sold in days. I can't understand why that is scoffing, it's explaining, but you love to use scathing vocabulary yourself to twist my words.

I agree (said for the thousandth time) that we must educate about where pets are bought from but online advertising is just a medium. "Buying online" implies paying for a pet and having it delivered without ever having met and checked out the home, breeders etc. I also think this would be extremely foolish.

Advertising online is a just a means of introduction.

See! We agree again!

You've just said a rescue is allowed to advertise online! So why can't a good breeder? Both scenarios are different from puppy farming.

My only point originally was that I don't think it's just internet advertising that is the problem. I don't get why you can't see that

It’s a shame that all these people that love animals so much aren’t a bit nicer to their fellow humans.

I despair at how rude people are to each other, regardless of the subject.

I wonder how the pup got on? Be good to get an update.