Do Americans not understand the meaning of Halloween?

[Yaley]

Preparing to be flamed by American Mumsneters! Browsing the lower brow media today looking at photos of celebrities in the US taking their children trick or treating. Nobody looks spooky. There are no witches, ghosts, vampires or skeletons. It's a come as you wish fancy dress party. And they seem to go trick or treating in the middle of the afternoon! I've just seen a picture of Giselle Bunchen and her husband dressed as avocado on toast.

I don't get it.

Or maybe they don't?

AIBU?

When I was a child in Scotland in the 70s it definitely wasn't scary. We dressed up as anything - I especially liked my chimney sweep costume!- and went round houses. You had to do a turn, jokes, a song or a poem, then you got sweets. Not keen on the scary grotesque costumes of today. Last year ds was a dragon, everyone thought he was a devil, he was not impressed!

And its Mexican, not Latino.

no. no. no.

The people who traditionally celebrated Day of the Dead lived on both sides of what is now the US / Mexico border. People who are born in the US are Americans, not Mexicans. People born in Mexico are Mexicans. It's very ignorant to refer to people whose families have always lived in what is now the US as Mexicans, even if you think they "look" like Mexicans, eat like Mexicans, etc. So NO, when people in the Southwest celebrate Day of the Dead, they aren't celebrating a "Mexican" holiday.

Latino refers to a cultural group, not a nationality.

Also, since I lived near the US / Mexico boarder for many years, you really can't convince me of things by posting internet links. I do have respect for traditions, but what I've seen is them merging together. I see people learning from and enjoying elements from people whose backgrounds are different.

Someone upthread mentioned Mischief Night - still happens in my neck of the woods on 4th November.

I agree, the horror and gore is just unpleasant. Spooky is fun though. We had a couple of those Scream masks come to the door and I didn't like that, it's quite intimidating not being able to see a face.

I meant its a mexican tradition, NOT an all of south america/all latino tradition as a pp said it was.

It is a Mexican tradition, that is celebrated by Mexican-Americans as well. It is not something that is vaguely "south american" (mexico isn't even IN south america!)

Decorating houses / porches / steps with pumpkins, gourds and corn is a "fall decorating" thing more than a Halloween specific thing in most cases. The same houses are likely to take those down at the end of November and replace with "holiday decorations" (what we would call Christmas decorations, like a pine cone wreath tied with red and gold ribbon)

One big difference in the US is family themed costumes, where everyone - adults included! - is coordinated. I've never seen that in the UK

It is a Mexican tradition, that is celebrated by Mexican-Americans as well

Clearly you know more about who celebrates Day of the Dead and how they like to be referred to than I do.

You aren't arguing with my actual point, so I can only assume you are being a GF.

It is not a general "south american thing" as a pp suggested, is it? It is not another version of Halloween, nor on the same day?

No, so why are you arguing with me?

Some in America decorate their homes at the start of October! They seem to be more exited about Halloween than Christmas.

If you’ve ever been to America for Halloween you would be wondering if we understood it!

I was in a shopping mall in upstate NY for Halloween once, there were whole families dressed up and all the shops were giving out sweets. It was brilliant l!

Would be interested to know from Americans if you do get this? Last night, we had homes egged, pumpkins smashed and fireworks thrown at people in the area.

Nope, none of this. It's a community event.

Additionally I'm in New England and a lot of people round here have no power right now, and it's pretty dangerous out there with power lines on the ground, fallen trees, hardly any houses having power.

So my town decided that they would do an extra trick or treat night on Friday for all the kids that couldn't go out last night.

And OP, most kids round here will be dressed as witches, ghosts, grim reaper, etc. But even if they're not, we're not doing it wrong or misunderstanding Halloween.

And they seem to go trick or treating in the middle of the afternoon

I'm in one of the bits of the US where it gets dark earliest, and it doesn't get dark till 5.30pm here. On the other end of my time zone it'll be getting dark at 6.30pm, and further south it'll be much later.

Is there anything else you feel we're getting wrong?

It was me who used "south America", not Coyote. Sorry, it was a clumsy expression. I know that in addition to the Mexican-origin Day of the Dead there are also other traditions in Latin America, in Brazil (Finados), Ecuador (Día de los Difuntos) and I think also Peru (?), all on 2 November. I don't know much about the history of these, but I meant to refer to the whole body of traditions stretching south of the Mexican border! It sounds from what Coyote has said the southern US is more influenced by the Mexican tradition than the others, though.

What seems consistent about Halloween/Day of the Dead celebrations is that they are a kind of hybrid the world over, with some very, very old elements alongside much newer ones! I think it's really interesting when new groups start to adopt rituals and traditions.

"You aren't arguing with my actual point"

because you use words incorrectly. "Mexican" doesn't mean what you think it means.

Many people celebrate Day of the Dead or include elements of it in their fall / Halloween, including Anglos. "Mexican American" is a term that has fallen out of use.

Many cultures believe that this is the time of year when the veil between the worlds is the thinnest. The exact date varies a little, the exact way to mark it varies. In places where people have diverse backgrounds and yet all get along, of course things mix.

The neat little boxes you are drawing around people and traditions don't exist. The labels you are using don't work.

This made me cringe: "celebrated by Mexican-Americans as well."

"Mexican American" is a term that has fallen out of use.

I didn't know this. What about Italian-American or Irish-American?

Would be interested to know from Americans if you do get this? Last night, we had homes egged, pumpkins smashed and fireworks thrown at people in the area.

None of that where I am in Texas either (although private fireworks are banned in our community anyway).

because you use words incorrectly. "Mexican" doesn't mean what you think it means

of or pertaining to Mexico? Pretty sure it does mean just that actually.

I don't really care if you cringe at perfectly normal terms. Mexican Americans was used in a tv show I saw yesterday specifically talking about the status of mexicans and those of mexican descent in america.
So who cares what your particular opinion of it is? Carry on lumping completely different countries with vastly different traditions in together while telling others not to use perfectly appropriate words, and go cringe in a mirror.

"What about Italian-American or Irish-American?"

I'm not sure. I never hear them, but it could be a regional thing. I hear people say things like, "my granny came from Ireland" or "I'm Italian" (meaning at least one of the ancestors came from Italy). Those terms might be more common in other parts of the country -- its a big country.

Those terms were never as problematic as "Mexican American." Mexican American was used to refer to people whose ancestors lived on territory that is now in the US and they NEVER immigrated. This is where the Day of the Dead connection is. And they weren't "Mexicans" so they aren't "Mexican Americans."

Mexican American was also used to refer to people whose ancestors immigrated from Mexico and people who directly immigrated from Mexico. It was also frequently shortened to "Mexican," which was problematic in a way that shortening "Italian American" to "Italian" isn't. (Mexicans drive across the border to shop, Italians don't).

It was also applied to people from throughout central and South American, which was just wrong. For example, referring to someone whose ancestors came from Peru as a "Mexican American". There are lots of immigrants / children of immigrants who are Latino/Latina, but not connected to Mexico in any way. Ironically, it has also been applied to people who are Mexicans and live in the US but aren't
Americans because they haven't been naturalized as citizens. I'm sure a lot of them celebrate Day of the Dead.

Additionally, here has been a really big mixing of people in the SW. Anglos and Latinos, Latinos from different countries, etc. One of the families I know that is really into the All Souls Procession the dad is from Peru, the mom is a pasty white chick, and the Day the Dead is big thing. But don't call the kids Mexican Americans, that's just ignorant.

Would be interested to know from Americans if you do get this

Not at all. I'm in Nor Cal, raised in So Cal. I can remember seeing a bit of 'egging' when I was younger but that's it.

I think the 'Hell Night/Mischief Night' is something of an 'Eastern' US phenomenon.

PoisonousSmurf - some of the decorating (pumpkins and corn type things, not graves and witches!) is general fall decorating, and is part of the run up to Thanksgiving. Halloween is just a useful stepping stone along the path to one of the most important bits of the year

I remember guising! So old!
Had to say something in irish or play tin whistle or dance a reel. Then you got your nuts and apples. Instead of yelling "trick or treat" at the person who answered the door, they'd ask you "what can you do?""

Was this just my road??!! Dublin. 1980 ish

MyDcAreMarvel
Halloween is the USA is far nicer, children dressing up in cute costumes. Dressing children up a devil and killers clowns is grotesque.

I totally agree, we lived over 20 years there and the kids were rarely dressed as witches.
Most tried to pick something clever. Dd over the years was, A pumpkin, Jessie from toy story, Wonder woman, A flamenco dancer.
Ds has been Men In black, a chess piece, and others.
Our friends always did a family theme costumes, one year was lord of rings, and another was all the characters from scooby do.
Much more fun than the blood and gore.

One big difference in the US is family themed costumes, where everyone - adults included!

This is one of my favorite aspects of Halloween. The year after Will and Kate got married, our neighbors decided to go as the UK Royal Family. For which purpose, they asked to borrow our Corgi.

We have just had our first Halloween in Chicago and it was great, freezing cold but great. People often sit out on their porches to hand out sweets, everyone says thank you, the houses have spooky decorations, some kids are dressed spookily and very often younger ones are not, adults drink warm spiced drinks. It reminded me a lot of my Scottish childhood apart from people sitting on steps and the heavily decorated houses. The Americans have grown and adapted the Celtic tradition but it is still very recognisable. I would say the Americans are doing it just fine, (although I miss the turn aspect, a few jokes would have improved it even more!)

This is one of my favorite aspects of Halloween. The year after Will and Kate got married, our neighbors decided to go as the UK Royal Family. For which purpose, they asked to borrow our Corgi.

I love this!!