To overtake on motorway left hand lane?

[brasty]

DP says I am. But I hate when you are on a busy motorway, and someone is sitting in the middle lane, and will not move to the left hand lane, even though it is empty. While at the same time the right hand lane is packed with cars, making it hard to pull out into the right hand lane and still leave decent distances. So I have occasionally just overtaken the middle lane hogger in the left hand lane. I know the Highway Code says you should not, but sometimes it seems the safest option.

I understand that you’re not supposed to undertake. However I drive a lot at night when it’s very quiet, often on 4+ lane motorways. If I’m sat in the inside lane/lane 1 and some idiot is sat in lane 3 or 4, I don’t see the point in pulling all the way across 4/5 lanes to properly overtake them to then pull all the way back to lane 1. That to me seems more dangerous tbh.

What do people do if people are in lane 3 of 3 and there’s someone dawdling ahead of them in the lane? Do you just sit behind them until they pull over? What if they don’t?

FadingSomewhereInHollywood.

If it’s stacking up in lane 3 but it’s clear in 2/1 I tend to drop back into lane 1/2 until lane 3 is clear to overtake the slower traffic.

Ignore what Flowers has said. When the law changed to allow the police to issue fines and penalty points, undertaking was included with lane hogging and tailgating. If caught you get three penalty points, and a conviction for "driving without due care and attention". This can push your car insurance up by 40%.

DillyDally15
Show exactly. So I don't understand what Flower is saying.

I have explained everything very clearly. The HC does not say you can drive along singing Delilah at the top of your voice, that does not mean it is not permitted. To keep asking "where does it say you can" is not the way to read a combined advisory and legally referenced document as the HC. You look at what the law is, you look at what it advises, you look at the difference, and you act accordingly given your situation.

Ask yourself this. Why would the authorities want you to put your life at risk when you didn't need to? Why would they want you to risk your safety and change lanes 4-6 times to get round an offending driver? They don't. That's why the piece you keep on quoting - and I keep on replying to you about - is ADVISORY, and not the law. If it was something you must never do, it would be the law. Ask yourself why it isn't.

Ask yourself why police driving instructors and advanced driving observers recommend you pass middle lane road hogs on the inside.

Ask yourself why passing on the inside is NOT an offence.

Ask why nobody has ever been prosecuted for passing on the inside, no matter how much Migraleve and Rae keep pretending.

What’s with all the ‘ask yourself’ nonsense?

It doesn’t matter what we think or why we think it should be done differently. The rules are crystal clear, to everyone but you flower

Absolutely no law against undertaking if you drive at 70 mph in lane 1 and there is a car in lane 2 going slower there is no issue with passing him. If you are doing 80 the only issue is speeding. The only problem comes if you serve from lane 2 to lane 1 to pass the offence is then dangerous driving.

Migraleve
The rules are crystal clear, to everyone but you flower

Says the poster who keeps making things up and putting them on here and pretends they are official terms. Says the poster who combines terms from the Highway Code which I had to direct her to use in the first place and her own fabricated conditions which she adds onto the HC paragraphs to try desperately to make herself sound right.. until we question her and she suddenly disappears and says she can't be bothered..

I never made up anything and pretended it was official. Stop being so damn twisted ffs.

I admire your perseverance, I will give you that

It clearly states the scenarios where you CAN undertake in the HC. Therefore it follows that other situations not stated should not be done. If what you say was allowed then it'd be the third point listed, especially given all the confusion relating to it. What do you class as undertaking then? When the left lane driver moves in front of the road hog? It isn't the act of changing lanes that makes it dangerous. It's moving in someone's left hand blind spot.

Ok it isn't illegal to pass someone while driving in the left hand lane but it is dangerous and not permissible in the HC, making it a grey area. Given your background Flower I would have thought you'd take heed of that and insist people overtake on the right. It isn't safe to undertake, it puts people at risk. As many have said you can't rely on the driving skills and observations of a road hog, so surely it's better to eer on the side of caution?

I think I actually need some Migraleve after reading all of this thread!

I'm with Dilly et al with regards my understanding, FWIW,

DillyDally15

It clearly states the scenarios where you CAN undertake in the HC.

No, it doesn't.

Therefore it follows that other situations not stated should not be done.

No, that doesn't follow.

Not sure what else anyone can do to help you. I have highlighted the HC, I have explained how it is to be used, I have explained the advisory nature of paragraphs you are hooked on, I have clarified the law for you, I have explained I am an advanced driver, I have relayed information to you by the police who actually train the police how to drive (what more do you want?), I have passed on advice by advanced driving instructors and observers (examiners), I have shown you how the offence of undertaking was removed from the law in 1972 and passing on the inside has never been illegal and isn't now etc etc.

Whilst Rae and Migraleve have only shown you just an advisory paragraph in the HC which is to be used with judgement, that's why it's an advisory and not the law.

If you want to believe you have to make 4-6 lane changes, go ahead and put yourself in that danger. If you don't want to do what the authorities permit, don't then. If you want to be stuck behind outer lane hogs, do so. Just don't criticise other drivers who choose to drive safely, within the law, with greater vehicle stability, defensively and with less risk.

Technically undertaking isn't unsafe driving in the wrong lane is unsafe. If you drive in the corrrect lane, as the Highway Code says left hand land unless overtaking, you won't be undertaken and hence no safety issue!

flowe

How kind of you to clarify things for us all. I’m not sure why you think you are the almighty and we all need to accept what you tell us, particularly as what you say contradicts what everybody else takes from the HC.

I think you maybe need to feel important, and you are desperate to be believed so you can make myself and others you have named look stupid. Unfortunately this is not going to happen. Your interpretation of he HC is flawed at best.

Nice touch to remember you were trained by the police and are an advanced driver after a few hours though

So what happens when everyone starts overtaking on the left

And the right

If it is allowed then why is everyone not doing it now

*DillyDally15

It clearly states the scenarios where you CAN undertake in the HC.

No, it doesn't. *

Can I please direct you to my quote from the HC previously. It does. You seem like one of those people who sees a loophole and takes advantage of it. Answer this please- if it is permissible as you say, then why is it not listed in that section of the HC? That suggests it's not advisable. (Never have I said what you suggest is illegal. It's just plain fucking dangerous and stupid).

How is it any less risky driving in someone's left hand blind spot? YOU are putting people at risk and driving recklessly if you think what you're saying it correct. Why is it that hardly anyone agrees with your take on it? Why did my driving instructor teach me NOT to do what you advise. Why have other people's instructors done the same?

You're one of those people who could argue that the sky is pink and wholeheartedly believe it. I don't think there's any reasoning with you.

ok hands up i undrtook someone this evening

i wasnt th only one about five of us did they were in lane 3 and wouldnt budge

i hop thy got caught in the end nothing would move thm

Migraleve I honestly do not know what is wrong with you. Like someone else said about you, you really have the most apt username, you are a nightmare of a headache and your posts do not make any sense.

You have replied to factual statements made in the law and the HC and said they are untrue. When evidence is provided that they are true, you then make up your own rules and pretend they are law and the HC. You keep fabricating rules in your head and coming on here telling other posters these are the rules of the road. You debate with me - which is fine - and you keep your stance, but then you declare that I am not allowed to maintain my stance. Why am I not permitted in your fictitious little world to answer posters questions and state the rules, but you are allowed to fabricate? Why are my statements viewed as believing I am the almighty, but your statements are not?

Your passive aggressiveness is just childish. I chose not to mention my advanced training as it really shouldn't be that relevant as the rules and law speaks for itself. The advice which I have been given, and the credibility of those who gave it, is relevant and so I mention it. You cannot even accept that can you, in your bizarre world that's something to be attacked for too isn't it?

You have come on here and insulted me and other posters, you have sworn using vulgar language, you have been aggressive and rude. I on the other hand have remained polite, despite your aggression and weird crazy manner.

I am not sure what problem it is you have, or what is going on with you, but you need to take it elsewhere and deal with it. On this thread, where we are discussing driving and safety and the law, your rantings and made-up nonsense are dangerous. I can only wonder in what other realms of life you apply the same desire to make up things and so aggressively attack other posters. It cannot be pleasant for you and I just feel sorry for you now.

DillyDally15 You asked for help, I gave it. Now you are being rude because you don't like the answer. You should have said earlier that you want to believe something in particular and you only wanted to receive answers which supported what you desperately want to believe is true. I would not have bothered to have helped you had I known this was the case.

Now you are becoming rude and aggressive. As with other posters who behave like this, I will not engage further.

www.askthe.police.uk/content/Q891.htm

Not sure what this website is but this is what it says

Q891: Can I undertake (overtake vehicles on the left) other vehicles on the motorway/dual carriageway?
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.
If you undertake other than in the circumstances described above on a motorway/dual carriage way, you could commit an offence.

Oh Christ alive Flower if anyone is being passive aggressive it's you. If you take offence at anything I've said, them MN isn't for you. You've been unpleasant and incredibly patronising to a number of people on here. I was genuinally confused, hence my queries which a few other posters then kindly cleared up.

My irritation lies with the fact that the points you have made have made me doubt my own driving knowledge. I passed two years ago and I like to think I have remembered a lot of what I was taught! It appears I have and I should ignore people who claim to train with the police.

What part of this is unclear:
Rule 267
Do not overtake unless you are sure it is safe and legal to do so. Overtake only on the right.

Only on the right. What part of that could you possible query?!

In case you thought up a loophole for that please read the following:
Rule 268
Do not overtake on the left or move to a lane on your left to overtake. In congested conditions, where adjacent lanes of traffic are moving at similar speeds, traffic in left-hand lanes may sometimes be moving faster than traffic to the right. In these conditions you may keep up with the traffic in your lane even if this means passing traffic in the lane to your right. Do not weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

If overtaking on the left and right (which you say is ok) you could essentially be doing exactly what the HC says NOT to do: weave in and out of lanes to overtake.

You won't engage with people who disagree with your POV because you're arguments are severely flawed.

What is a middle lane (or outside lane) hogger if not congestion?

@Jamiek80 that is absolute bollocks. It is illegal to undertake in the UK. And fucking dangerous. Have witnessed many near misses because people either don’t know the rules or disregard them.

ferrier to me it means stop start traffic. In this instance a car in the middle lane will know there's someone in their left hand blind spot, making it less dangerous to be moving past the middle lane car in the left hand lane. It's where traffic is free flowing that it's a problem. That's my take on it anyway. I'm see flower will tell you otherwise

@ferrier Congestion means all lanes heavy with traffic and moving at the same speed. A middle lane hogger, whilst annoying and dangerous (because the idiots will undertake, as shown on this thread) is not congestion because you can overtake them in the right hand lane.