AIBU to want to know who makes my clothes?

[Kabex]

As the title suggests really, who is making the clothes in the shops? Where are they made? What are they made from? What chemicals have they been treated with?
There is almost no way to find the answers to these questions.
Does anyone else care?

@astoundedgoat thank you for the link, I would very much like to buy clothes that were made in the UK or whatever country I was shopping in at the time and I would love to be able to see where it was actually made. I think that would also help educate younger generations about clothes and give them an understanding of how things are made too and not make clothes appear as some mystical commodity that just _whoosh- appeared in (name fast fashion store). I would love to see more industry in the UK for production and manufacturing. There is plenty of empty real estate for it and people looking for jobs. Or is this idealistic?

I try to make the best choices I can when shopping. Ie I don’t shop at Zara because they frequently copy independent designers work. I do buy mass produced clothes from primary because actually it is possibly to manaufacture a t-shirt for two pounds and not screw anyone over in the process.

Lessons were learned by the rana plaza fire. I wouldn’t shop at Walmart still because they took an unacceptable length of time to pay compensation to those that lost their lives.

Its amazing how many people lose/ have no ethics when it comes to it impacting their wallet.

I think there are a lot of people who can't really afford to have ethics about clothing. In high unemployment and/or overly expensive property market areas, people struggle to pay for their roof and decent food as it is. You can spread the message, and share the documentaries about sweatshops (a few very good ones online) but you can only hope people buy 2 or 3 tops instead of 10 they don't need.

I read somewhere that if you were sewing the buttons of a garment in the UK you could label the item as "made in the UK". I don't know if it's still true.

@Kabex I’d say companies are almost entirely doing it from customer pressure and the fear of bad PR rather than then thinking altruistically.

But it really doesn’t matter as it is happening. I’d go so far as to say I would rather buy an item of clothing from a shop that produces things overseas in an ethical way than try and find a UK company that pays living wage here. But that’s because I have seen the children on the streets and in very rural parts of Bangladesh and the economy there really needs the business and the work. Women especially need the power there that working and bringing in a living wage there brings them and their children.

In terms of transportation though, it’s not ideal! Big cargo ships bringing stuff here using all that fuel, and then the ships coincidentally ending up eventually in ship breaking yards back in Bangladesh! Now that is truly back breaking work taking those things apart and recycling all the materials.

I am musing materials now...

@astoundedgoat

I thought I’d find a few of my photos of a factory outside Dhaka. I wish I could post a video here 😬

Women (and men) who worked there were well looked after and it was key to the local economy. By working, women were supporting their families and children were in school.

It must be nice when you can afford to pay £22 per square metre for fabric plus paying for a sewing machine and the cost of learning how to do it and all the wastage that goes with it when you make mistakes Or you can afford £20+ for one fair trade ethical cotton t shirt. Back in the real world, plenty of people have no choice but to shop in places like primark. It doesn't mean you don't care about ethics. It means you need to clothe your kids on a limited income.

Whoever suggested wool as an ethical choice, by and large the wool industry is very cruel.

My understanding is that the supply chain is extremely complicated and murky, so that the stores themselves have little visibility over the factories that are making their clothing.

And paying more isn't a guarantee that production is more ethical. Many stores just have a much higher mark up.

You really have to seek ethical stores out. And I agree, cotton is one of the most problematic materials from an environmental pov.

It’s a definite myth that more expensive clothes means more expensive material and Labour costs. There have been occasions where Chanel bags have been made in the same line as primary bags. In fact who do you think rips off the bigger designers in record time to have cheap copies?

The fact is no some people can’t afford £22 pm and the accrued costs of learning to manufacture. Not to mention there’s no guarantee the fabric is ethical. Tbf if it’s not screwing up a human it’s probably screwing up the environment.

But everyone can try and make the best choices. Some people buy too much too cheaply. If a £20 top is better manufactured and ethical then of course it’s better than a £2 one from primark where’s it’s life span can be as little as a couple of months.

I’m no angel it’s impossible to create clothes without someone or something being screwed over I’ve just gone with small changes. No Walmart cos they wouldn’t pay compensation til they were shamed, no Zara because they rip off independent designers and as few zips as possible.

Maybe a good alternative if you can't make your own is to buy vintage/second hand clothes? I don't think you need to have a high income if you have a sewing machine and learn to sew though, and most fabric doesn't cost £22 a metre, although maybe organic/sustainable fabrics do, I would need to look into that.

Do you think 'ethical' clothes need to be expensive?

No body said a £2 Primark top is better than an ethical £20 one. The fact is for lots of people they have no choice over the £20 one. Great for you if you can afford that, but don't assume the people shopping in primark are doing it because they don't care where the clothes come from or the people that make them.

I personally do shop in charity shops too. But my choice often boils down to paying £1 for a stained, dog eared babygro thats been through 10 babies or i can buy a new pack of 5 for £5 from primark, which i then pass on to another family. I've got twins so £44 for two pairs of leggings is my weekly food bill. Id love to shop more ethically but can't. Not that i don't want to. Can't.

In 2015, the UK government enacted the Modern Slavery Act which requires organisations with a turnover of £36m or more to report on the steps they are taking to combat human trafficking and modern slavery. This applies not just to the clothing industry but all industries. It requires big companies to review and diligence their supply chains (into the countries where they operate) to ensure there is no offending behaviour as well as train staff to spot signs of human trafficking and modern slavery.

The act requires the company to post a Modern Slavery Act statement of what steps they have taken to combat which is linked to from their website. Big companies should already have these statements on their website. It should either be on their home page or if not, google the name of the company and Modern Slavery statement to find it.

The act is not the panacea (not least because it is new and compliance patchy) but in principle it requires big companies to pass awareness of modern slavery within its organisation and down the supply chains to the suppliers they use.

AFAIK, this is a UK act and not an EU initiative.

I think a lot of people know how you feel @Alittlepotofrosie, that's why I am asking the question to see if maybe someone is developing an alternative or to consider how other people make steps to buy ethically to see if those are also an option for me

I do agree with you that the origins of clothing should be available on the labelling or website... there should be a lot more clarity so those who can afford to consider ethics can do. Much the same way as a lot of food these days has this info on but there's still a long way to go there too.

I kind of went off on a tangent in response to the posters who implied the people shopping in primark are just after fast fashion rather than responding to your op.

What I think would be great is for famous you tubers to start getting involved in this discussion to raise awareness because I do think there are parts of society who don't feel the current fashion system is an issue

home-made clothes are awfully more expensive than shop bought, when you go to Primark, TK Maxx or even H&M during the sales. Your sewing machine, your time, fabric, thread, buttons etc

It's also unreasonable to think that everybody can buy clothes in charity shops: they are not that cheap anyway, and you need an awful amount of time to be able to browse and find something at the right size. It's nearly a luxury by itself to have the leisure to do it.

At least when you walk in Primark or browse Next and the like, you find what you need, order it and done.

My point is only that it's very difficult for people to be ethical! I do agree, more transparency would be good. Remember the horrendous fire in a factory in India? I do think most people would love to care about the process, it's just very difficult.

Making your own isn’t the cheap option though - I have three sewing machines; a regular one, an overlocker and a coverstitch. To make professional looking clothes in knit fabrics that’s the minimum you need. Replacing them would cost me a couple of grand. If I was to go into selling I’d want better machines and probably a couple of industrial types.

Fabric is expensive.

Sewing is time consuming and takes a degree of skill. I’ve been sewing twenty years and only consider myself an ok amateur.

I TOTALLY understand why people shop at supermarkets - I would too if I was in the uk. Unfortunately there are NO cheap clothes where I live so it’s not an option.

All manufacturers need to police their supply chains. Often the labour cost difference of ethical production is tiny - it’s pennies on an item. Having done a lot of temping in retail as a starving student I can also confirm that the same factories make items that are almost identical for different suppliers - with price tags to boot.

Wool can be ethical by the way - you’ve just got to get your sources right (no mulesing for example.) there are plenty of ethical merino suppliers (that all cost a fortune...)

I’m finally in a position where I can be a bit more picky about what I wear and what I make. And that’s nice, but it’s a luxury. What’s needed is for all retailers to have proper due diligence on their supply chains. I think it’s happening, slowly.

My Indian friend told me they create some blue dye using cyanide.

Dye chemistry is both fascinating and terrifying 👩🏻‍🔬

I can’t afford to buy ethically/uk made clothing. BUT every item of clothing I have bought for the past 8 years has been 2nd hand. Either charity shop, eBay or Facebook mainly.
I try to buy as much as I can of other things 2nd hand too.
It’s the best I can do.

Yeah, dye chemistry is weird! Anything dud with an acid dye, basically corrodes the surface of the fabrics! And I think it's dank digoxin dye that has quite a heavy metal content which can cause allergies.

Someone asked upthread about why processing fabrics is so unvironmentally friendly. Cotton is by far the worst. It goes through so many processes. Removing starch, singeing off any hairs with a gas flame, bleaching, washing, bleaching washing ad infinitum. This can be about 20 attempts before it can be dyed. All of this uses ridiculous amounts of water, and none of it is reused.And that's before it's dyed or printed.Dyeing uses lots of water too. And then more chemicals or processes are used to give it a 'finish' Also of course there is the issue of replanting cotton, use of pesticides too

Whereas polyester is dyed usually in the liquid plastic state and then made into fibres for weaving. It may go through a few finishing processes but nothing like cotton.

I read somewhere that scientists are trying to genetically modify cotton to be blue or red to save on all the processing.

That should be indigo dye has a high metal content.

Not mention most dye mixes consist of urea- which is basically urine in pellet form. Lovely

You can make your own. You can buy a second hand and upcyle in to something new. Try peopletree. Look etsy.com for inspiration. Try a clothes swapping party.

Some people are making clothes out of new material eg lady makes cotton out of dried milk. Yes really. One guy makes childrens clothes that stretch and grow with the child. Someone Someone who made something out of of 🕸 spider Web. May be you can invent the next thing?

I get the ethical consumer magazine.

A few years ago I picked three shops that were the most ethical within my price range and just shopped there. Anything else came from charity shops or i made it myself. We have community cafes here where you can hire a machine so I taught myself on that.

I think for me it goes hand in hand. Ethical and the least chemicals. Although I understand in other countries the cost of living is less.
I'm too overwhelmed to understand where to start though but I have stopped buying clothes. We live with too much.

TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince your post is really helpful about the chemicals.

Now where can we get things that aren't bleached and have so much chemical stuff in them? That will probably lead us to ethical companies too.