To think this will be one of the big scandals of our time?

[Betty184]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5027927/NHS-pressured-kids-change-sex.html

www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/first-cut-is-the-deepest-but-reversal-also-traumatic-for-trans-community/news-story/4b46bf9bba4fdbe9f3451d47fc081677

It does amuse me how everyone thinks the Daily Mail is just full of shit and bile until it prints something in line with their own agenda, then it is an beacon of truth and reason.

Don't get me wrong, I do actually largely agree with the OP but why use the DM as a source? If it were about any other issue you people would accuse the writers of twisting and exaggerating things, so why would it be different on this issue?

And if you know this stuff happening because you have found it from other sources, then why not use those sources to back up your arguemnt, rather than a media outlet widely known for spouting shite?

Completely agree. Anyone with an ounce of common sense can see pushing this through at such a young age is a terrible mistake yet governments are jumping on the band-wagon. PC nonsense and they don't give a shit about the people.

I do not usually like to get involved in the trans threads but I totally agree with you.

What scares me the most is the very little kids where the parents have them live as the opposite gender. My daughter at 3 wanted to be a boy, she demanded a football kit for her birthday and wore it when all the little girls wore princess outfits. Why? Because all our neighbours had boys, and they decided she couldn’t play with them because she was a girl. She’s now a very feminine 20 year old with no desire to be a boy. Y five she’d changed her mind.

If I’d been one of those parents, I’d have changed her name, and brought her up as a boy, and fuck knows where it would have ended. Other than having a deeply traumatised 20year old.

Kids get confused for all sorts of reasons, and what’s happening is simply a tragedy in waiting for many who are transitioned at a young age.

It's utterly bizzare that the NHS are chomping at the bit to wizz these kids through I feel like I'm missing something ...

I just can't understand why common sense has gone out the window*

This!

when my daughter was little she kept saying she wanted to be a boy when she grew up. She used to use the toilet like a boy! She’s now an adult with no desire to be a man. It was a phase. If the same child had different parents these days, parents who assumed that a girl wanting to act or look like a boy actually wanted to BE one god knows how it would’ve played out. Scary times.

Yanbu
How can there possibly be meaningful policy when research is stifled?

totally agree; we seem to have rushed headlong into this with very little reflection.

YANBU

stolemyusername

I call myself Transfinacial

I completely agree.

I think there's going to be a huge backlash in the not too very distant future. It scares me quite a lot tbh.

It's child abuse sanctioned by the state. No one is born in the wrong body, that isn't possible. Everyone is born in their body and they they can have any personality they like. Gender is just another name for personality, but girls have to have girls personality and boys have to have a blue one. It's regressive, sexist nonsense. My daughter wears what she likes and doesn't conform to a stereotype, she is told by her peers that she must be trans, must be a boy. It is frightening. This is a social contagion.

It's insane.

It will get worse I predict before it gets better.

Biological sex will become unmentionable. Passports will simply record whether you like pink/dresses/make up or blue/cars/football.

Yanbu

A friend of mine had gender dysmorphia as a young teen. His parents got him some excellent therapy. He is now a very happy husband and father. The last time I saw him, we discussed this very issue. He says that when he sees what is happening today, he is filled with dread and relief - relief that he isn't a young lad today, and dread because he can see how easily he could have found himself making a huge, huge mistake.

Children under 18 aren't allowed to get tattoos or get married without parental consent, yet it's ok to let them make huge decisions that will change their bodies and their fertility irrevocably. People are going to look back and think we were either mad or cruel, similar to how we look back at industries employing four year olds in the 19th century

I would like to think of myself as liberal and accepting of diversity. But I too think its going too far and could have far reaching consequences - particularly with surgery.

Its a conversation I have with my children where I ask why the kids at her school are so obsessed with labels and names for their variety of gender identities and sexual preferences. Why bother with these labels at all?

I have a friend whose sibling went through gender re-assignment having suffered from depression all her life. She had to move towns and change her whole life because of peoples' attitude to her but still after re-assignment suffers from terrible depression and is deeply unhappy. from what my friend says I'm not sure she thinks she did the right thing.

I have also read on FB some very nasty arguments between lesbian feminists and transgender campaigners that ends up (to my eyes) being deeply vicious on both sides. But it also seems that being born a woman naturally is actually being dismissed and the feminists are being shouted down - your experience as a woman is not important and you dont have the right to say you know what it is to be a woman - just because you were born as one.

yet it's ok to let them make huge decisions that will change their bodies and their fertility irrevocably

Isn't it odd the rush to do this yet women who want to be sterilised face huge hurdles in doing so.

Of course YANBU, Op ... and surely one of the most illuminating points from the excellent article you quoted is this: there is nothing “civil” or “right” about a political movement that silences dissenters and punishes those who try to bring nuance to a complicated story

The commonality with so many other recent "causes" is very clear, the irony being that those who instantly cry "bigot!!!" are the very ones who lack the mental capacity to see the bigger picture. I've no doubt we'll see them on here soon enough, insisting that theirs is the only humane (or even possible) approach; they'll hammer away at the report button, create silliness in an attempt to get the thread deleted and all the rest, never seeing that sensible discussion is the only real way forward

Sad, really

Excellent article. Thanks.

This part jumped out for me and I've mentioned it a few times about articles like this.

Last year British actor Rupert Everett gave himself as a reason not to medicate children with hormone therapy. He spent his childhood wanting to be a girl, often decked out in dresses, but said: “Thank god the world of now wasn’t then because I’d be on hormones and I’d be a woman. After I was 15, I never wanted to be a woman again.”*

This is exactly me (except not at 15 more like from 3-6) and it's worrying that if I was born now and had the 'type' of parents, I would be being sincerely convinced by now I was born in the wrong body. Stop putting labels on children. A boy wanting to wear girls clothes or a girl wanting to wear boys clothes is just children being fucking children ffs if they are truly trans they will decide that when they are older.

There is a social contagion issue here that i can see as a parent of a 12 year old.

I'm waiting for the condescending "moral panic" meme to be pumped out next.

Interesting article. I am a bit puzzled about how exactly male to female surgery could be reversed into anything that was either aesthetic or useful, but if they say they can then I will accept that they can, but please don't ask me to look!

I think one can of worms that will be opened soon is the one held by ambulance chasing lawyers , forget about have you had an accident, it will be were you wrongly advised about your gender/your child's gender. I hope the NHS clinics are upping their insurance premiums.

I feel uneducated regarding the NHS protocol on this- does anyone know what the case usually is - once a child is taking to GP do they need to go for counselling etc for a period of time before discussing what their options could be?

Bananas, I think the reason many of us think this will be a scandal rather than simply "didn't people have some funny views in the past" is that this involves medicating children below the age of 18, drugs the side-effects of which are not fully known but which are suspected to be very serious, and in some cases (where they have very right-on parents prepared to pay for medical treatment abroad) subjecting them to irreversible surgery. So it goes way, way further than "back in the 90s it was considered PC 'not to see colour'."

There is a social contagion issue here ...

Beautifully put

I'm waiting for the condescending "moral panic" meme to be pumped out next

Any time now ...