To expect my tenants to understand?

[Littleelffriend]

I own a flat which I rent out. I wanted to sell it but no takers so I’m stuck . The rent doesn’t cover the mortgage but better than nothing. I got new tenants 5 months ago, lovely couple no issues.
Since they moved in there have been numerous problems. The roof started leaking, I got it fixed within 3 days. The cooker broke, I ordered them a new one straight away. They blocked the toilet with wipes, I paid for an emergency plumber the same day.
They called Friday and said they had no heating or hot water. I had an engineer out within 2 hours. He said he had to order a part which would be here today. It’s the wrong part, and it won’t be fixed until Friday now so a week of no heating or hot water. Totally shit, no argument from me. But my tenants are now being crap about it, going on about how frustrating it is. I know it’s frustrating, but these things happen and I’ve done my best. Aibu to wish they would be a bit more understanding?

The law states that it's ok for a tenant to be left a few days before a landlord even makes steps to remedy the problem.

The op has done better than that. Ignore the rent reimbursement crowd, what a load of old tosh! You're well within the law, which understands it can take time to sort these things out. The main thing is you got the ball rolling asap.

http://www.thetenantsvoice.co.uk/advicefromus/heating-and-hot-water/

Can you link the legal wording about fixing hot water within 24hours please safari?

No she can't. It doesn't exist, in England anyway.

Tenant can contact environmental health if landlord not fixing issues in a reasonable time.

Dailystuck71 , same source ConsiderIt linked above. It states

"The level of emergency would be dictated by the current temperature and the need to use heating in the property. However, you shouldn’t experience loss of heating during the cold season for more than 24 hours. Anything more than two days can be interpreted as a hazard to the tenant’s health and therefore a serious breach in the tenancy agreement.

Lack of hot water is an emergency regardless of the season. Tenants can use a kettle for boiling water for washing purposes, but that doesn’t mean landlords can hold out on the repairs.

Some repairs might take more than the reasonable time, in which case the landlord needs to provide equipment for heating. If your landlord cannot fix the problem in time and cannot provide any replacement heaters, you should ask for temporary accommodation. You can stay with a B&B or a hotel for a few days, while waiting for the repairs to be done. This should be covered by your landlord, but if it is not, you have a strong claim for compensation with the courts."

I don't know the relevant legislation itself. I would expect it doesn't define timescale though, that's more likely to come from precedent set by relevant court cases.

In my last place over 4 years the LL had to get the boiler repaired (2 nights hot water) and had to rip out the barh to access a leak to fix it. No bath/shower for 3 days. I'd rather wash with some kettle hot water in the bag than do a strip wash over the sink but hey ho.

Annoying? Yes. Major drama? No.

Even the best LL with the nicest maintained properties have issues.

Yabu. Regardless if you couldn't sell, you shouldn't be a landlord if you can't handle the business of tenants.
Hope you have converted the mortgage to a BTL one!

Why would she need to convert the mortgage?

There is no relevant legislation. That website is wrong. The hhsrs has no legal force although it can be used as basis for an improvement notice. Still won't magic up a rapid fix.

As of next April it will be illegal to start a new tenancy on a property with an epc below e. Expect lots more section 21s.

Because stuff goes wrong and fixes take time, my rental has two independent sources of both heating and hot water, plus home emergency cover. (Same as the house I live in). Something to ask about before renting.

My sympathies OP. Pouring money into a property when the rent doesn’t cover the mortgage is shite. You did your best given this situation. You didn’t order the wrong part. It was a mistake and mistakes happen.

If you were living there yourself you would be in exactly the same situation except you wouldn’t get an outpouring of sympathy from MN.

For all the posters who hate LL’s, where would people live if there were none? The housing crisis here in Ireland has been fueled in part by LL’s being forced to sell their properties or losing them.

They blocked the toilet with wipes, I paid for an emergency plumber the same day.

Just her to point out that they should have paid for this, since they caused the damage.

Yanbu. You've done your best and contracted a qualified person to carry out the works. I can understand their frustration but it's the plumbers fault and not yours - I can't see that you could've got the work done any quicker without having a crystal ball that the plumber would order the wrong part.

I rent out a number of properties, this stuff does happen.

You should provide them with some sort of alternative heating. It's not freezing I know but it's worth investing in a few of those oil filled radiators that you can plug in and taking those round. The evenings are chilly and unless the flat is enormous it would be better than no heating at all until the boiler is repaired.

Sorry - I've not trawled through all previous so I don't know whether they can use the immersion heater? If so then great, if not then the lack of hot water is pretty rubbish, however there is a massive difference between coping with this if you're a family with young children or a couple who can probably shower at a mate's/the gym/work for a few days. Ignore what other people are saying - this happens even to homeowners and you can't always guarantee you will get someone out within a certain timescale.

You have tried to deal with this - you can't magic a plumber/the right part out of thin air. Assuming the boiler is fixed when you say it should be then just look to take out some kind of boiler care with a good service level agreement going forward. If it continues then I would consider giving them something monetary as a gesture of goodwill.

Good luck!!

You should have made sure your flat was flawless before renting it out

This is funny; things break, whether in owned or rented properties. Boilers don't give you a heads up that they're going to break Wednesday at 4pm. You just have to deal with it when it happens and the OP has done so.

"Actually, no not doable for most. Firstly not everyone has big tubs or buckets lying around (I've only got a floor bucket) but if you've got a decent head of hair (mines butt length and thick"

Same here. There will be a certain MNer along soon to tell you you should cut all your long hair off.

I manage a domestic electric plumbing and heating firm. Crazy busy at the moment, and I agree with a PP that homeowners are willing to wait but tenants want it yesterday. But also homeowners tend to be way more flexible about arranging an appointment. It’s am or pm. We will always try and be as accommodating as possible to anyone but with the best will in the world we just can’t give a set time. Tenants will say I’ll be in for 30 mins in the morning and 20 in the afternoon and then get shitty when it isn’t doable. Yes it’s a ball ache, but that’s just life.

We have to choose most days who to bump and who we can push to the end of the week. The family with the newborn baby? The very elderly lady living alone? The family with 6 older children. Not enough hours. Today we took out two engineers for a full day to fix a dying mans boiler because he can’t bare the thought of leaving his wife with problems in the house. They could have each fixed 6 other boilers in the time the one big job took.
A couple with no children, not elderly and presumably in good health? Bottom of the list I’m afraid. We would obviously fix ASAP, it just wouldn’t be as ASAP as someone in one of the circumstances above.

Tenant or homeowner, we will do our best but sometimes you just have to wait.

I think OP has done all she can and a week is not unreasonable at all. Believe me some LLs leave tenants in a shocking way. Equally some tenants are demanding and entitled.

Sounds like you have been a really decent landlord. A hell of a lot better than ones I have had previously. Once had a landlord who expected us to go without heating/water for 3 weeks in december...and moaned when we contacted him to complain that the 'plumbers' he was sending out had actually told us they weren't actually plumbers but general worksmen (3 seperate companies) and one was just his fucking friend who wasn;t a plmber or a workman! Was trying to get off with not paying proper rates. Had a 2 year old with us at the time too...though honestly, it was no good for even the adults and he was just taking the piss. We actually ended up moving out because of that fiasco and the daft bastard tried to charge us an extra 6 months rent even though we would never have moved out if not for that..and then tried to send another friend to our guarantors house to threaten him telling him he would have to pay the 2 months rent and we would not get security deposit back either. Fully expected to lose the security deosit but like hell were we paying extra ontop after his treatment of us. Turned out, he was so organized and professional he couldn't even find the guarantor form to try and force it from DHs dad

Though we also knew he couldn;t claim it as the contract stated that we only had to give 2 weeks notice to move out...not the 6 months he was trying to say

Anyways, I think you should probably expect them to be a bit peed off over the no hot water thing. Not so much the heating but no hot water is a pain in the arse, I rent a council place now and they have someone out the same day for issues with water and our neighbour had a problem that was going to take over a week to sort and the council paid for a hotel for her in the meantime.

So probably, expect them to moan a bit. Hopefully they will beok again once the problem is sorted. I do think you probably should have charged them for the blocking the lo with wipes thing though.

"Tenants will say I’ll be in for 30 mins in the morning and 20 in the afternoon and then get shitty when it isn’t doable"

Perhaps some of them are on Universal Credit Tenants are more likely to be in lower paid jobs with fewer rights.

Which doesnt occur to some ppl on here as per.

A rent reduction is completely reasonable. The OP has stated that to her chagrin the spare part originally ordered was the wrong part and that the tenants will have to wait a week for the proper part. She is clearly happy that she cleared up the other problems asap - and credit where credit is due for that. She has clearly implied by her frustration in telling the detail of the delay that she realises it is not ok to leave tenants with only a promise of a fix in a week for essentials like heat and hot water.

you can't magic a plumber/the right part out of thin air.
I disagree. I have hunted down a part for my oven that I was told would take two weeks for the gas technician to find. It was in a trade warehouse in the city where I live, in an area full of warehouses and light engineering works where very few female suburban homeowners ever ventured. Took me half an hour to find it online and another 45 mins to drive there and pick it up. It came in a plain brown cardboard box marked with numbers.

Whether the plumber or the OP ordered the wrong part, the responsibility for fixing the boiler and the heating is the OP's, not the plumber's. It's not all out of her hands once the plumber crosses the threshold.

I agree a rolling plug in radiator would be a good idea though.

YYY HelenaDove.
And many people do not know from one week to the next what their hours will be.

Percephone - fyi on the topic of flushable wipes:
www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/oct/26/uk-water-firms-call-for-do-not-flush-labelling-on-wet-wipes
UK water companies are urging a national trading standards body to help stamp out “misleading” labelling on disposable wet wipes that are marketed as flushable but clog up drains and litter oceans at huge environmental cost.
Apparently not everybody by a long shot knows you shouldn't flush wipes.
They are calling on manufacturers of moist toilet tissues and other non-biodegradable cleaning cloths such as bathroom cleaning wipes – which are routinely flushed away by consumers in their toilets – to ensure that such products are prominently labelled as not flushable and are to be disposed of in a bin.

www.costco.co.uk/view/p/kirkland-signature-moist-flushable-wipes-600-pack-863427
Costco 'Moist Flushable Wipes' sold in the UK, £15.99 (inc VAT).
Important Flushability Information: Kirkland Signature Moist Flushable Wipes comply with all industry guidelines and are proven, when flushed one wipe at a time, to pass through a home’s well-maintained toilet and drain lines or septic system without clogging. Flushable wipes are not recommended for use in motor homes or with basement pump systems.

Maybe people are getting mixed messages? Maybe the tenants dutifully flushed the wipes one at a time?

@grannysmiff (ing glue?)

You really think that the tenants should be moved out?

I think that a bit of give and take is necessary. The OP could have billed them for the blocked toilet but didn't. She couldn't be trying harder. People nowadays are far too concerned with their rights and not their responsibilities. The tenants in this case are the perfect example.

Good grief, not having use of a shower doesn't mean you're"filthy"; you can heat water and wash from top to toe every day. Of course it's a nuisance and if I were the LL I would reduce the rent, but it's not such a terrible hardship, for a few days.

I'd sell your flat as quickly as possible if I were you. You will never be able to do anything right as a landlord. It's not worth the hassle.

Here's the thing though - a situation of a boiler breaking down, needing a particular part and not being able to get hold of that part immediately just does not happen with a well-maintained boiler that is fit for purpose. Something is being done on the cheap here - either it's a rubbish unreliable brand, or it's ancient and should have been replaced, or your heating engineer is a cowboy, or possibly all 3.

Decent boilers can breakdown - though rarely if they are well maintained as a decent heating engineer will spot potential growing problems during the regular annual services and will fix them before they fail catastrophically. If they do fail the parts are readily available quickly.

In my own home, when I had my old boiler serviced I was warned that as it was getting on a bit the standard parts were beginning to get tricky to get hold of and whilst it was currently working fine, any breakdown would take a while to repair. I had a new boiler installed before the next winter. A responsible landlord would have done the same and if you weren't warned then you've probably been using a cowboy on the cheap for your servicing too.

I can't believe some of the replies on here.

The hot water system broke in my last rental apartment. I called the real estate agent, who told me he couldn't get a plumber on Sunday, so it'd be Monday at the earliest. It was early Saturday morning at the time.

I told him that it wasn't a matter of 'couldn't', it would just be more expensive. But that that wasn't my problem as legally they're required to fix issues with electricity or hot water supply within 24 hours. (Which is true where I live.)

Magically, someone was found on Sunday morning to replace the hot water system (which, incidentally, was so rusted out that the safety-inspection-date tag was not even legible ).

There is absolutely no way I would go without running hot water for a week, just to save my LL a buck.

Isn't there some kind of law covering hot water in rental properties?

Yes, and every renter or LL should know what it is in their own jurisdiction.

Opinions about washing with buckets, etc, don't come into it.