To expect my tenants to understand?

[Littleelffriend]

I own a flat which I rent out. I wanted to sell it but no takers so I’m stuck . The rent doesn’t cover the mortgage but better than nothing. I got new tenants 5 months ago, lovely couple no issues.
Since they moved in there have been numerous problems. The roof started leaking, I got it fixed within 3 days. The cooker broke, I ordered them a new one straight away. They blocked the toilet with wipes, I paid for an emergency plumber the same day.
They called Friday and said they had no heating or hot water. I had an engineer out within 2 hours. He said he had to order a part which would be here today. It’s the wrong part, and it won’t be fixed until Friday now so a week of no heating or hot water. Totally shit, no argument from me. But my tenants are now being crap about it, going on about how frustrating it is. I know it’s frustrating, but these things happen and I’ve done my best. Aibu to wish they would be a bit more understanding?

The holiday cottage with a boiler that broke down happened to me.
It happened second day and was fixed on day five. There was no financial compensation. The cottage company (very reputable) organised someone to come and look within 6 hours and the. A key workman came the next day and 2 days later the boiler was repaired.

It happened during a summer holiday so we didn't need the heating. There was an immersion heater which was a pain to use. However, the company were swift in dealing with it and kept us informed. We are also offered an option to go to another cottage 15 miles down the road after the 2nd workman came and it was clear it couldn't be mended that day and we would have to wait nother 2 days - we turned this down becaue we loved the location of the cottage. They did give us 6 bottles of wine on the day it was fixed.

It was annoying but no more than that. We weren't furious or outraged despite paying premium summer holiday rates. We just understood these things do happen and we did appreciate the level of service and communication and apologies the company gave us.

My feeling is that tenants are often a bit chippy. I understand why -they often have had bad landlords who haven't got on and mended things or communicated well. And they also often feel they are being ripped off with the rent. I think it is because of these things that some become very aggressive and to be honest unreasonable in their timescale expectations about repairs or espcting financial compensation for being without certain services for less than a week, when they have no entitlement to such compensation.

I think tenants often feel pretty powerless - often they don't want to be tenants but would prefer to buy and can't, often they are living in accommodation they don't especially like and often they have had bad experiences or know that bad experiences are pretty common. I think that when people feel a bit powerless and something happens, they often react in an aggressive or unreasonable manner. Sometimes it's also about simply not knowing a different way to respond to problems and how to interact well with people to bring out the best outcome.

TBH, I don't think the OPs tenants have been like that - they sound like they've voiced annoyance about the boiler issue - perfectly fair enough. OP needs to expect that in the circumstances and respond apologetically and be clear she is on the case and communicate timescales regularly. She is doing that.
However, many on this thread sound like they WOULD be stroppy and unreasonable tenants in the same circumstances. I don't know if that's because they have been tenants who have had bad LLs previously or if they are just stroppy unreasonable people in all areas of life who don't really have an accurate sense about what you can expect or what is even possible in different circumstances.

Shit happens, as others have said. It doesn't always warrant compensation. When you've paid you are entitled to a speedy response and clear communication and the problem to be sorted in a reasonable timescale....not blood and not impossibilities.

want2be there is nothing 'above and beyond' about wanting a working boiler and hot water! They've not demanded a Jacuzzi be fitted!

My feeling is that tenants are often a bit chippy

Both dudes can be so chocolate.

I still remember watching a doc where the working tenant got kicked out because she'd dared to complain. On the other hand you've got tenants that leave the place in a complete mess and much worse than they found it.

They offered you an alternative, Chocolate, to having no hot water at all or telling you to boil the kettle or heat pans of hot water to bathe yourself - an immersion heater or another cottage. They didn't tell you to like it or lump it or to put up with it because if you owned the cottage, you'd have to. That is a rather huge and key difference here.

I agree @expatinscotland.

I think you have to allow reasonable time for repairs. A week is practically no time - an annoying inconvenience but doable with a kettle and a couple of heaters and whilst they are paying a rental and expect a service with all due respect she is not a boiler fairy, a reasonable time for repairs to be instigated is acceptable.

When we used to rent we never got pissed off if it took time for things to be repaired provided the landlord was doing it as fast as possible. Boilers break down, it happens. They can boil the kettle and mix with cold water in a sink and use that to wash with for a few days. Honestly some people are ridiculous - and no I'm not a landlord, I have been a tenant until this year and I've never expected a rent rebate for any issues like this. The only time I've ever not paid rent is when our kitchen ceiling collapsed due to a leak, and we had to move out while it was repaired.

"sandgrown Wed 25-Oct-17 08:24:01
We had no boiler for 7 months because we could not afford a new one"

Whats that got to do with it? How is that the fault of others who are renting.

If you cant afford boiler insurance then you cant afford a mortgage.

"Urglewurgle Wed 25-Oct-17 08:45:49
I work for a housing association and, this time of year, we wouldn't class no heating as an emergency (unless there is a vulnerability or medical need) and the first appointment would be within 5 days.

Hot water is never classed as an emergency (unless vulnerable or medical need). You can always boil the kettle, or if they have an electric shower use that."

this is typical of the attitudes from social housing providers.

The thing is as a home owner you can ring every gas man in the city to get your own boiler fixed or replaced as fast as possible.

Most LL just have one plumber they use and it’s a case of fit it in when I can.

We had enough with our old LL and the boiler breaking we actually got a gas man in to check it over. They said it could be patched but would break down again and need replacing. His gas man said no I can fix it £200 will last years blah blah blah.

His gas man did it, it broke to the point of being replaced a month later because he only trusted one gas man. We did have permsion before anyone says anything about us messing with the boiler.

Same in this house every single year the same part in the boiler breaks, the same gas man replaced the same part every year which gets it though another 10-12months. The LL won’t use anyone else and won’t replace it despite in repair costs he could of brought a new boiler from someone else.

Just offer to not charge rent for the time they are without hot water. If they don't accept that, you can be content that you've done your best to be fair with them.

Ultimately as the landlord it is your responsibility to ensure the things you are responsible for maintaining work and are safe. It is not acceptable for a tenant to be without hot water for days while still paying you rent.

Could you not hire a different plumber and get it fixed sooner? You will be surprised how many parts with a long lead time "miraculously" appear sooner if you offer to pay more, too.

To be honest it sounds very much like you want the benefit of the tenants' rent money without paying a penny more than you feel you have to.

"However, many on this thread sound like they WOULD be stroppy and unreasonable tenants in the same circumstances"

Universal Credit is being rolled out to a lot more places and a lot of claimants will be tenants some of whom are IN work. They will/are being told to look for extra hours wherever they can. Those hours could be with short/no notice If they dont they will be sanctioned = no money to pay rent.

Landlords AND their workmen will have to be more flexible if they dont want to risk this.

So if you are a landlord who voted for this.......Suck It Up.

It happened second day and was fixed on day five. There was no financial compensation. The cottage company (very reputable) organised someone to come and look within 6 hours and the. A key workman came the next day and 2 days later the boiler was repaired.

It happened during a summer holiday so we didn't need the heating. There was an immersion heater which was a pain to use. However, the company were swift in dealing with it and kept us informed. We are also offered an option to go to another cottage 15 miles down the road after the 2nd workman came and it was clear it couldn't be mended that day and we would have to wait nother 2 days - we turned this down becaue we loved the location of the cottage. They did give us 6 bottles of wine on the day it was fixed.

Leaving aside the fact that you actually had an immersion heater and so no real problem at all (given that you weren't going to be paying the bills) - a) they offered you alternative accommodation and b) how is six bottles of wine not compensation?!

specialsubject No one is forced into being a landlord with a gun to their temple, no. However, it's obviously frequently the least bad option.

A number of years ago we rented our house out and rented ourselves. Of course we could've reduced the sales price! Sadly that would've meant negative equity of around £60k. Add on estate agents fees- although- how would we pay them?) of £20k and we would owe someone £80k minimum. So we would've gone bankrupt.

Or, we could rent out the property- the rent covered 2/3 of the mortgage- and rent a much cheaper smaller house ourselves.

So yep, we had a choice. Selling up wasn't one anyone with half a brain would've taken though.

We had a week without heating or hot water in March of this year. Renting so landlady was working with the maintenance team to come in and get it done. At the time I had a 2 year old and a 8 month old so it was really frustrating. Landlady was annoyed, I was annoyed, we moaned together and then cheered together when it was fixed. Didn't have a reduction in rent but landlady did offer us her own shower if we got really stuck (luckily we lived with my Dad for a few days) 9 times out of 10 we offer to do any simple repairs ourselves to save her the hassle (washers on taps, painting fence etc...)

You're doing everything you can but I think it's fair of the tenants to voice their frustrations. It seems they are annoyed at the situation, not you personally.

expat Short term rentals are not the same as annual rental. The price of an annual rental is much lower for a reason. You can't compare the two.

What everyone is forgetting is that the LL can't make the plumber go faster. I have a tenant who is disabled. I would be raising their case as a priority because they are disabled. I can't start work with one plumber and then move the job to another plumber. It just doesn't work that way.

Also, I don't know any LL outside of a HA who has multiple plumbers on staff. The way my family run the HA side is for every home to have the same boiler and we keep spare parts including 2-3 boilers on hand in case they are needed. It takes about a week for delivery. There are two maintenance crews each with a plumber and apprentice. However even with this level of staffing sometimes tenants have to wait a day or two for something to be repaired because they can't work 24/7 to get to everything.

Short term rentals are not the same as annual rental. The price of an annual rental is much lower for a reason. You can't compare the two.

Why not? Don't all your arguments - the property-owner doesn't have decreased costs when something is broken, paying compensation might make the business financially unviable - apply to both in equal measure?

'The price of an annual rental is much lower for a reason. You can't compare the two. '

The same way you cannot compare homeownership with renting. Annually? Many are on 6-month leases and have to pay fees to renew every 6 months. Or they get served notice and have to pay to move again. Don't know any homeowners who face that every 6 months, and even longer leases usually have 2 month get out clauses the LL can invoke if they need the property back if it's a private let.

Dp is a private landlord he didn't want to make a loss on the house so we ended up renting it out . We had no agents so no fees we paid vetting ourselves , our old tenants were so lacking in common sense it was unbelievable, they complained the shower was leaking had a look and it was 1 drip every 2 minutes , the oven was smoking I suggested cleaning it tenant cleaned it with bleach , they said their washing machine was flooding (not our problem but dp went to look) it wasn't installed properly and the leaking was small. Every problem we tried to fix tenants would say they were going out or busy but would moan on the phone . They became parents 6 months ago and I did wonder how they would cope with a baby when they had no common sense . New tenants are delightful we are still looking forward to selling eventually

A holiday cottage is a daily/weekly rental. Renting a home is an annual contract for my tenants with a clause that allows either side to break the lease at 6 months. This is done to protect both parties from being stuck in a lease that isn't working for them.

The reason you can't compare the two is that a weekly holiday cottage rental is much more expensive than a week of an annual contact for a rental property. There are different rules at play, little things like VAT are paid normally for a weekly holiday cottage too because the nature of the agreement for a holiday cottage is entirely different to that of a residential lease.

Again there is this assumption that LLs are all charging to renew leases every six months. Actually it's letting agents which charge that. If you don't want to deal with that sort of nonsense then rent direct with a LL. Most of us are descent sorts who maintain our properties and sort out problems quickly. The OP sounds to me like a good LL. She has fixed things which are not her responsibility (wipes flushed down the toilet) and was prompt in getting a plumber out to fix the boiler.

And again, you can't compare homeowning to renting and plenty of people use letting agents because they can't find a LL to go to directly.

Sorry love, but being a "landlord" (regardless of what rent you decided upon) puts you in the very firm position of having to sort everything out. No iffs' no buts' - You have to sort it out.. It goes with the territory. You don't have any favours due from your tennants, nor can you expect any understanding or patience from them. Rent it out, and
do it properly, and suck it up. Or sell it. You can't have it both ways.

Reasonable timeframe and good communication are the key for repairs from landlords and agencies. If you get those you are getting no more and no less than you have paid for.

Because you are a tenant and pay hefty rent does not mean you can expect immediate repair which is impossible.

Moaning about things breaking down is to be expected. LLs need to expect this and to be sympathetic and take action swiftly and communicate clearly and frequently. Tenants may sometimes ask for compensation. Sometimes it is a ridiculous request and sometimes it is reasonable. The terms under which compensation is payable can be put into contracts and tenants and landlords should ensure this is the case if they want this clarity. Often it's not there and so sensible and reasonable approach is needed. It is this sensible and reasonable approach which maintains goodwill which is always important in any LL-tenant relationship.

The OPs tenants have no case for compensation if the repair happens on Fri as was clearly communicated to them on Tuesday, after they had been updated and had visits from workmen. They have cause to moan and LL has cause to apologise, to keep on the case and could offer a gift which isn't compensation but a gesture of goodwill in the circumstances - perhaps wine or flowers or whatever.
Regarding financial compensation, the LL has no obligation to give it unless it is in the contract, but would be wise to be offering some after a reasonable time has lapsed if the job can't be done - this is certainly not within a week.

I was without my landline for 6 weeks. It was supposed to be fixed in 14 days - that is the 'normal' time for the company and no compensation is payable in that time. After 4 weeks they were prepared to offer £25 credit towards next payment and when it got to 6 weeks, they offered £50 credit.

Phones and boilers are not the same, but as other posters have said, lack of hot water isn't life threatening or an emergency if it lasts for 5 days. It is an annoyance and an inconvenience. Those who want to suggest it it a crisis which means someone can't live there have lost perspective - it is 5 days! Having perspective is really important when things go wrong. You are entitled to be cross and to a speedy response and good communication. However to judge such a thing as a crisis or that 5 days justifies financial compensation (and many seem to suggest there should be compensation instantly the problem occurs) is a lack of perspective. And I don't think we have heard from anyone yet who has had rent reductions for such a short period of non-emergency problem.

Reasonable timeframe and good communication are the key for repairs from landlords and agencies. If you get those you are getting no more and no less than you have paid for.

Precisely chocolate.

I beg to differ on the no hot water being an emergency though. It depends if tenants have an underlying illness and what it stipulates in the tenancy agreement.