To ask everyone to remind.... [cycling related]

[GnomeDePlume]

themselves, their partners, children, lodgers, siblings that they need to wear hi vis and have lights on if any part of their journey involves cycling on the roads.

Driving to work this morning in the dark I found myself behind someone on his bike, no lights, no hi vis. I only spotted him because a house light picked him out for a moment. Otherwise he was near invisible.

I can't believe the way some posters ( I'm guessing they are cyclists) are turning on the OP for pointing something out to ask cyclists to do something to ensure their own safety!
Although, when I consider what I see on the roads where I live I'm not suprised as the levels of aggression and entitlement by cyclists against drivers/ joggers/ horses is awful.
It's about time that cyclists should have to legally register, be issued with a registration number and buy insurance.
I don't understand why cyclists would take any offence at the OP request- surely they understand the importance of being seen. No body wants to hit a cyclist, they are very vulnerable on the roads without any sort of ' shell' to protect themselves. I remember something from my dim and distant past - a campaign where the tag line was " See and be seen" - was this for cyclists I wonder? If it was it's even more important now as the number of cars and cyclists on the roads has grown so much.

@GnomeDePlume My apologies if my use of the expression hi vis has caused confusion. The hi vis I have to wear for work is neon and has reflective panels. I thought that was standard.

And in turn I also apologise for posting in irritation with my earlier reply - as a peace offering. I understand you didn't intend to start a thread attacking cyclists but it has inevitably gone that way. When I ride my bike I know I look bloody ridiculous with the amount of hi vis, reflective, lights and whatnot I am decked out in - but I know full well someone, one day, will still not see me and I'll be wondering how hard the imminent landing will be. We've all seen the videos.

@Lethaldrizzle's comment I don't post on here every time I nearly get run over by a bad driver. One bad cyclist annoying you this morning does not mean we are all bad is the point, too.

CatchIt that's a great set of photos.

Cyclists have every right to be on the road and for drivers to be aware and take sensible precautions. But that doesn't make me any less frustrated with the cyclist I came across last night - I was driving on an unlit dual carriageway, they were cycling with no lights or reflective gear. My lights were fine, but when all there is for them to pick up is a little red reflector on the back of the bike, 60mph (a reasonable speed on a straight dual carriageway in the dry) doesn't give much reaction time. If they'd had lights and/or reflective gear it would have been much easier and quicker to both see and recognise the cyclist.

YANBU OP.

If you are at a T junction waiting to pull out and an invisible darkly dressed cyclist comes from the right your perfectly working headlamps will not spot them.

Personally if we all share the road cyclists should have to pay a cycle tax.....this could be used for additional lighting so they can be seen better....can't stand cyclists who think they own the road.....I am a cyclist and a car driver and I think cyclists who are like this are a real pain in the ass

Whatsthecomingoverthehill - nice reasoned debate. Thanks!

@yorkshireyummymummy I can't believe the way some posters ( I'm guessing they are cyclists) are turning on the OP for pointing something out to ask cyclists to do something to ensure their own safety!

Because we "good" ones already do everything we can to stay safe and highly visible (and yet are still being hit and injured and paralysed and killed in shocking numbers)!

Do you think telling, say, headlight-flashing, tailgating motorists that they tailgate is going to give them a holy revelation and suddenly they'll be perfect drivers? Of course not, because they were dicks to start with and they'll carry on being dicks. Same thing with people who ride bikes without lights. Cyclists aren't just one big masonic-alike gang who can control every person who owns two wheels (if we could, we would, if only to stop this sort of thing!)

Yy shotsfired

I thought I already paid for roads/streetlights through council tax?

I don't know why people are criticizing OP, I've seen many cyclists with no lights or reflectors at all and they are impossible to see until the last minute!
In the past week I've seen lots of children riding their bikes without anything reflective. I don't know how their parents can let them out like that!

You are not being unreasonable, OP. I live in a uni town and often students go home around dusk without lights until it gets properly wintry. 9 times out of 10, I see them, I have had a couple of times I have genuinely not seen them til very late on, then I have to take too fast/aversive action which may endanger them, me or the people coming in the opposite direction. It really scares me, and I don't have a problem with my lights, general alertness nor passing bikes in normal daylight or when they are clearly visible. Why make it much harder for me to see you to the point where I might cause an accident? It would be my fault, but it would be unpleasant for everyone!

^I can't believe the way some posters ( I'm guessing they are cyclists) are turning on the OP for pointing something out to ask cyclists to do something to ensure their own safety!
Although, when I consider what I see on the roads where I live I'm not suprised as the levels of aggression and entitlement by cyclists against drivers/ joggers/ horses is awful.
It's about time that cyclists should have to legally register, be issued with a registration number and buy insurance.
I don't understand why cyclists would take any offence at the OP request- surely they understand the importance of being seen.^

Just to prove Lethaldrizzle's point.

These discussions are always, always the same. There is always someone who starts complaining about other things that cyclists do that is unrelated to what the OP said. There is always someone who starts going on about registration and insurance.

And no one seems to actually care about the data. Cyclists are safer than motorists despite not being registered or passing a test. Even though some of them don't have lights they are still safer. I put the link above - not having lights is a factor in very few accidents.

This does not mean that people on bikes shouldn't have lights etc, but the blame that is put on them is unfounded.

I think people who are not regular riders get caught out easily at this time of year.

An easy way to check how reflective clothing actually is:

Take a photo on your phone using the flash. Check the image and you should see all the reflective bits clearly highlighted.

Just thought I'd post something useful rather than attacking op for pointing out what is obvious to anyone with sense but does clearly need highlighting as evidenced by her example.

I'd also say that some bike lights are very weak, and blink in a very weak way flashing on and off hardly at all. I don't think some cyclists are aware how crap their lights are because they have lights on and probably never drove behind themselves. The best ones are bright and constant or at least don't stop when the person is hardly pedaling.

I find driving around dusk very stressful due to children in dark coats/uni students without lights on bikes, especially in the rain at this time of year.

Personally if we all share the road cyclists should have to pay a cycle tax

Why? Car drivers don't. Road tax was abolished in 1937. Roads are funded from general taxation, and most cyclists pay both income tax, and VAT on things they buy.

Every time I ride my bike with the lights on some nobber (always a pedestrian, always a man) will suggest I'm drawing attention to myself with a sneer.

Well, erm, yes. Yes I am.

When I'm cycling (including in broad daylight) I'm often staggered by the inconsiderate behaviour of some drivers and pedestrians.

When I'm driving, I notice inconsiderate pedestrians and cyclists. When walking.... well, you get it.

Some members of all groups behave badly, and a lot of people are sometimes drivers, sometimes cyclists, sometimes pedestrians. We're all really good at saying what the other groups should do better, though, aren't we?

When i was in primary school we had a massive assembly this time of year and they would play this video (link below) and give us a reflective owl that we could clip onto ourselves.

Saw a Belgian teenager riding home in the murk last night, no lights, no reflective clothing, headphones in, not using the handlebars and texting. Sigh.

I have lots of hi-vis clothing, for me and my pony. I used to wear it when I cycled too. I did still get run over though.
shotsfired said "I know full well someone, one day, will still not see me and I'll be wondering how hard the imminent landing will be." I remember wondering if I was going to die as I hurtled towards the tarmac.

This thread reminded me of the day I bought some reflector leg wraps for my pony. I put the first one on him, and he was so intrigued he took a step backwards to see what I'd put on his leg. He couldn't twig that as he moved back so would the New Thing. There I was, doubled up with laughter. watching him walk backwards round the barn, trying to catch up with the yellow wrap on his leg :)

As a fairly new cyclist I consider it my responsibility to make myself visible to others around me and that's just on cycle paths.

I think that OPs original post was simply to encourage people to check that their family and friends were as safe as possible in dark conditions. The side arguments weren't started in the original post.

80% of cycle accidents happen in daylight. Most of the cycle deaths on the road are due to driver error, mainly because lorries and bikes just do not mix. Most cyclist take precautions, I simply do not see the need to state the bleedin obvious - of course cyclists should make sure they're visible but most of us do.

These threads can be chilling though when you see people’s attitudes to cyclists. I’m a mother of three, very careful and responsible but have been almost knocked down several times usually by drivers (Uber cabbies) who do feel they can wait 20
Seconds for me to clear a junction.

It's fine to remind people (cyclists, runners, horse riders) Tobe as visible as possible

I think OP has got a few backs up by saying they need to wear high visibility and lights (former, no. Latter yes it's a legal requirement in some circumstances, not all).

slight hijack here, sorry OP.

Cyclists, what do you think of those attachments for bikes where you can have two dogs running alongside your bike so you can ride your bike and exercise your dogs at the same time? A cyclist near us regularly uses one in the rush hour and has the dogs on the side of the cars, usually he rides well out into the road so you can't overtake them.