If it was compulsory to do 50/50 do you think a lot of men would not agree to have children?

[honeylulu]

If it was compulsory for all childcare and domestic tasks to be split 50/50, do you think that a lot less men would agree to have children?

It's hypothetical as of course itsunenforceable (but imagine that it was enforceable). I guess you also have to assume in that scenario that both parties work equal hours outside the home.

I share everything equally with my husband and it's worked out fine BUT I would say that he enjoyed our dual income/ no kids lifestyle and was happy to leave it like that. I had to talk him into having children and he kind of assumed I'd bear the brunt of the increase in domestic life and take a bit to my career (while his would remain unaffected). I was honest about wanting to share everything and go back to work but he admitted afterwards he thought I would change my mind about this once I'd had the baby.

Things worked out fine for us (we now have two and he's a great dad) but sometimes I doubt he would have agreed to have a baby (an idea he was otherwise not terribly keen on) if he knew he was getting lumbered with half of everything as well as what we already had on our plates.

I don't think he was that unusual. Interested in what others think.

I don't know if most people would agree to have children if they knew what was in store for them, to be fair! We do share everything pretty equally, bearing I'm a control freak, so sometimes I do things because I like them done a certain way. But it's pretty 50-50 (we also both work, though I work slightly less than full time now, not by choice, they just can't pay me for full time and I'm going out on mat leave soon). I don't think that would have made much difference for us. But our relationship is pretty progressive, I have the much more high powered career, my dh tends to take more of a back seat to my professional needs and has to be the flexible one, do the school runs when I have meetings, etc. I think probably giving birth would have been the clincher. That would have probably put him off (even though I had a lovely birth experience). He's just a bit averse to pain and dealing with health professionals and all that. I'm not sure he's been to the doctor in all the years I've known him.

I think you're right that fewer men would want children in those circumstances, and fewer women would too.

Because, in your hypothetical society, it would be compulsory to share all the loads: childcare, domestic chores and wage earning.

Once the law was passed and everything had settled down, I would expect equal numbers of men and women would prefer to go out to work - and equal numbers of men and women would prefer to be SAHPs.

It would be an interesting thing to see, but not a good thing, obviously. The ideal society would give men and women equal opportunities to take either role, or both.

"So chestylarue, better childcare is the way to persuade parents to return to work full time? "

I have no doubt. Combined with, an attitude from employers that 9 to 5 means 9 to 5 and government legislation to support employers to help families.

I think it's an interesting question and think you're dead right!
Haven't RTFT a single have my hands full at the min

This could only work if women also shared 50% of the financial burden so therefore went back to work. There would also have to be the understanding that working, regardless of what you are paid, is working.

I think what would be better for men and women, and have a greater impact on whether people had children, would be for them to understand that once they have had children they are responsible for looking after them and funding them. If as a couple you decide the the Dad is going to work to further his career etc and the Mum is going to be a SAHM that's great. However if you split up all childcare must be covered equally including drop off/pickup, sick days etc and the Dad who works needs to provide financially but so does the mother. Currently the benefit system kicks in - what should happen is that both parents take the hit. This would make men think a bit harder about it.

I think you are right. To be honest, if I had been born a man- I would probably have had children. I like children but never wanted to be responsible 24 hrs 100%- and it seems a lot of men feel like this as well

It's very rare for men to take on 50% of the work, even outside of working hours. Even those who really pull their weight with chores or spend time the kids alone rarely share the mental load (or like my husband) can manage the kids alone for several hours but won't do any of the crucial tasks I have to do while they're looking after them.

What I never understand when reading the relationship boards is how so many of these women got themselves into such a position. I mean surely you have the whole children talk before deciding to marry or make a long term commitment? I knew that if I had children then I’d want to step back from my stressful job at least for a while. DH agreed. He also agreed that the only possible way to make this work was to have one money pot. He also agreed, and stuck to, the concept that my day job with young children was equivalent to his day job at work and therefore evenings would be split 50:50 as would weekends. I SAH for a few years and this worked well. When I planned to return to work I did need to explain to him that he’d now need to shoulder 50% of the ‘thinking’ that goes hand in hand with 3 children. It did take him a while to realise as things like haircuts/dentists/new shoes/ after sch clubs etc just weren’t on his radar as such. However, once he realised he absolutely stepped up.

So I think the key is to ensure you’re both on the same page right from the start. Both valued as equal partners and both wanting the same things in life longterm. I didn’t need to coerce DH into having children. We discussed this before committing to each other. I find it bizarre that the concept of children/childcare/housework/financial sensibilities etc just suddenly appears in people’s life. Surely you know how your partner views these things well in advance? If he doesn’t want children or doesn’t realise what having children will mean then why go ahead without at least discussing how you feel about those things?

It would certainly separate the wheat from the chaff.
I think you are right.

I have 3 DC and out of all their friends and everyone I know at the schools, I can't think of any fathers who take the lead in the day-to-day care of DC, except for several cases where the parents are separated and the dad has the kids for a few nights a week. My DH just wouldn't have had the patience to be at home with toddlers. I know that sounds like I'm making excuses, but I genuinely can't imagine him doing that, nor any of the men I know. I only know if one case whee the mum is the main "breadwinner" these days and the dad works part-time ish around the kids, who are older now. (They used to have a nanny when they were both working and the DC were younger). They are probably approximating to 50/50 in terms of "the mental load", but they are the only set-up like that I can think of.

To be honest I thought the 'women desperately want kids and have to persuade men into it' thing was a misogynistic myth until I started reading the conception boards and saw how many women describe their partners as more reluctant as them, and how many men think they're 'just seeing what happens' while their partners are secretly off doing ovulation tests and timing sex by stealth! It's pretty depressing, really, reading about all these reluctant fathers when DH is so desperate for a child and we don't seem to be able to manage it.

margaret

I wasnt fussed about a baby once we started clomid...i thought well its not the end of the world

It got to about 5 months in and yet another negative pregnancy test and he stood there and said 'i don't understand...we are doing everything right'

It was then that i realised that he really really wanted a child...more than i did

I hope it works out for you dh is an awesome dad and is now struggling with our eldest going to uni

Thanks, rufus. My most recent miscarriage seems to have broken him - he's been so down and despairing recently, and I think he's really thinking it might never happen for us. It's just hard not to get angry thinking about the unfairness of how easy it is for some people who don't even want it, but I know that's not a helpful or fair way to think. Sorry for derailing the thread!

Not derailing at all margaret

I really hope you both find a way through this, it must be incredibly difficult for you