To think current painkiller law doesn't work

[Soubriquet]

I'm on a lot of pain killers and have been advised to pair it with ibuprofen and paracetamol when severe.

However I can't buy 2 packs of each in one transaction. I can however pop to the next shop and buy 2 more and again and again

I know they are trying to stop overdosing but surely if you can go shop to shop buying them, Aibu to think this law doesn't really work?

really The rule now is that you cannot have NHS and private treatment concurrently for the same thing so a GP cannot see you on the NHS yet prescribe privately, if that makes sense.
Also pharmacies charge a dispensing fee for a private script which may be a flat rate added to the tablet cost but some have a minimum charge equivalent to the NHS prescription fee. Very few people will want to pay £8+ for a couple of boxes of paracetamol

Things must have changed then roomster. I’ve not needed a prescription in years but our gp would always write a private script if the medication was cheaper than the prescription charge.

Some GPs will but strictly speaking they are not meant to if they are treating you on the NHS and many won't.

There is no need for a private prescription anyone if the drug is something you can buy over the counter. If a GP writes an NHS prescription for something that is cheaper over the counter the pharmacist should tell you and give you the opportunity to buy the drug .

"That’s therapeutic dose though. Overdose is significantly higher at 150 mg/kg/day in a healthy individual. So that would be more than double a therapeutic dose in your hypothetical 50kg adult."

75mg/kg is considered hepatoxic, though, and would warrant treatment in staggered overdose.

As I understand it the limit is per transaction
So I bought a packet of nurofens (16) with my shopping but I had to pay for the other box of identical tablets in a totally separate transaction 30 sec later- apparently that's the 'legal' way

75mg/kg is considered hepatoxic, though, and would warrant treatment in staggered overdose.

Only in high risk patients- alcoholic, liver disease, anorexia, enzyme inducing medication etc.

at least we can buy lots of OTC medicines though, in other countries in Europe it's far more difficult, you either have to go to a pharmacy or you can't get them without seeing a doctor at all.

Yes, I had huge issues in Benidorm just a few weeks back as one of my morphine bottles smashed in my case. Could not get anything stronger than paracetamol or ibruphen and was told that if I wanted morphine replaced I wouldn't even be able to get it from a doctor, had to go to hospital :S

I self medicated with a lot of alcohol for a couple of days instead. If it had been more than one of my bottles that smashed I would have been totally fucked

I did not expect chemist to replace my morphine, just to be clear. But I could probably have made do on codeine or something staggered between morphine doses

The law on paracetamol sales was introduced in 1998 and the impact on that was significant, apparently: "Deaths from paracetamol overdose have reduced by 43 per cent since smaller pack sizes were introduced in the UK in 1998." (www.pharmaceutical-journal.com/news-and-analysis/rps-calls-for-tighter-legislation-over-paracetamol-sales/11116663.article)

But did those people who no longer killed themselves using paracetamol refrain from killing themselves altogether, or did they use a different method?

It's useful to take a look at this report from the Samaritans on the suicide rates over time. Page 28 has a graph showing the change from 1985 to 2015:

www.samaritans.org/sites/default/files/kcfinder/files/Suicide_statistics_report_2017_Final.pdf

There has been a gradual reduction in suicides over the whole period. But the drop since 1998 has been fairly small - interestingly it's bigger for men than for women. And there has been a slight increase in suicides amongst women in 2014 and 2015.

I don't think you can draw absolutely firm conclusions about the impact of the withdrawal of paracetamol on overall suicide rates. But interested to see whether others interpret the data differently.

That sounds so stressful horny and could easily have ruined the holiday! I take liquid morphine and it's an extra thing to worry about when considering holidays: what if something like that happens, or you run out or it's stolen, or even worse if it's considered an illicit drug and can get you arrested (obviously you'd research first). Don't think people without chronic pain realise the amount of mental effort it takes to always be making sure you're not caught short in agony.

Yeah I know..I was 'lucky' that it was my 80ml bottle that was broken and not one of the bigger/fuller ones (get 280ml per week)

Last time I went on holiday there was a huge delay once past bag drop and I was told morphine HAD to be in case not carry on and I was actually not going to go because of the delay as it was absolute hell in the airport. Tried asking about getting case back and that and was told even that would take hours as they were already on plane. I had taken my normal dose right before leaving case and it would have lasted until I got case on other end without the delay. I now ask docs for a few dihydrcodeine tablets for if I need painrelief in the actual airport. Better than nothing.

I guess in future I also need to ask for a shitload of them for if morphine is smashed in case again :S

Yeah that's a good idea. I don't really go on holidays, but if I did I think I'd ask for some back up pills as well as the liquid for that reason, plus take a letter signed from the GP to help if I needed to get some elsewhere.

I get 300ml per week. It's quite refreshing to meet someone else also on it as I don't know anyone else in real life. Nobody would guess I take such quantities of morphine because I look so fit and healthy and I'm young (late twenties).

Ps couldn't you have decanted it into a plastic bottle to avoid risk of smashing? Could you then take it on the plane? Not sure what the rules are.

Yeah, I am 30 and none knows the extent of my pain issues bar my husband who actually has to care for me. My parents don't even know how bad it is. Friends only see me on 'good days' and just would not believe how ill I am if someone told them

I never thought about the plastic bottle thing...I would think that may be an issue though as...theres no proof that its mine and not just recreational or something? Unless I also left in the prescription bottles for if they searched the case or something :S

The laws work because paracetamol deaths due to overdose have decreased since they were introduced. Arguing that they don't work because they wouldn't prevent you personally committing suicide is therefore pretty stupid. In my opinion, it is worth inconveniencing a few people slightly if it prevents some deaths.

And the thing about paracetamol suicides is that they are often intended as a cry for help. Many, many survivors report that they did not really intend to die. Unfortunately paracetamol is extremely toxic even in small overdoses and people often kill themselves accidentally - a 'cry for help' becomes actual suicide. Many of these people would not attempt suicide using other, more obviously lethal, methods because they did not intend to kill themselves in the first place.

A lot of the accidental suicides before paracetamol controls were introduced used to be teenage girls

As PPs have said, if you need larger numbers of paracetamol or ibuprofen, all you have to do is speak to a pharmacist. It's not that hard and it saves lives.

Yeah it's awful when it's invisible. Luckily a lot of my friends are aware as I've had it for over twelve years. But colleagues, new people etc would be stunned if I told them about my medication.

Well, what i would do is take the prescription, take the glass bottles empty and a sticker on signed and dated to say you've decanted it, and a sticker on the plastic bottle too saying the same. Obviously no guarantees but I think it'd be best shot. Stating it's decanted due to fragility of the glass and put it all in one bag.

Another idea could be if you're at all able to, try ration your doses a little less for the month or two before the trip to see if you're able to get together 500ml for the trip rather than just 280ml to give yourself a bit of leeway.

Yeah that was actually my plan this time, to take maybe double the weeks worth with me by denying myself it a little in the weeks leading up. Didn't work that way at all though. When the pain hits...and I know I have it there I have to 'sort it' as best I can else half the time I end up in hospital :S

Will try the plastic bottle thing next time I think, had never thought of that but honestly, I had never thought of a bottle smashing given I wrapped them up in all my clothes (also meant I had to wash stuff there which I dont usually do as half my clothes were sticky and smelt of sweet horrible smells xD

Wanted double my doses so that I could have a virtually pain free holiday as even the 280mls leaves me in agony for a fair bit of the day. I know given my tolerance levels that double that as a one off would not overdose me or anything

Completely understand that. It's almost impossible not to treat excruciating pain when the option to do so is right there.

Erm people should be careful about what they’re saying. I know it’s the internet and information is everywhere but a suicidal person could be reading this and taking note of how many mg per kg. You’re just asking for trouble.

That info is available all over the internet. Trust me, if someone is planning/considering suicide they will find that out. It's probably on the NHS choices site and WebMD and various online medical journals and Wikipedia too, it seems a bit mean to be trying to make posters worry that relevant info shared appropriately might contribute to a suicide!

It's more likely that the thread will save lives by raising awareness of the dangers of accidental and cry for help overdoses.

@lljkk

If you want to reduce suicide by paracetamol, then say it's a very painful prolonged horrible way to die.

Doesn't work. There was an episode of Casualty way back when that showed the dangers. There was an increase in paracetamol overdoses after it was shown.

It saved my son's life I think. He nearly died through overdose. So very nearly. But he hadn't got as many available to him when he hit that low as only small packets are sold now. If he'd had 100 or 500 in the house - that's what he would have taken. I'm sure of it. As it was, he managed to find 40 and the hospital thought he was unlikely to survive. So - to whoever brought the laws in....thank you.

I worked out that, based on my weight, it would take approximately 24 tablets of paracetamol to be a lethal overdose, which is a shockingly low amount. That is less than 2 packs! It would be even less if I was less chubby smaller. I took 4 times the amount I needed, although I didn't know that at the time when I did it. It is scary how little can be dangerous.

I also didn't know at the time what it would do to me if I hadn't gone to hospital. I am very glad I did now. Agree with the PP who said education needs to be better about how awful it is to overdose and just how easy it is to do accidentally. I'm not sure I would have attempted it if I had known, I think I just assumed it would be a nice, peaceful, drifting off to sleep.

While I'm not sure the law works if the person in question is really determined, really it is worth doing if it saves any lives at all.