Help me!!!!!!

[overloadedwithchocolatecake]

Not really an AIBU but I need advice mumsnetters!! I'm at the end of my tether! My DS (age 6, yr 1), has a 'friend' who is a mega mega bad influence and I don't know what to do. Please help!!!

They were in the same class in reception and I hoped they'd get split up this year but they didn't. This little boy (let's call him E) is really really naughty! Disobeys adults all the time, never listens, is mean to other kids, causes havoc, and uses horrible language (butt holes, cocks, and other choice words).

My DS likes him because he is fun and high energy, but whenever they are together my DS copies and joins in with this boy. Party today and my DS was really rude to me and had mega attitude because E was behaving like this (and his parents don't give a monkeys).

I have tried all kinds of tactics, from telling him he can't be friends with the boy (didn't work), to laying off completely, to talking to him everyday about the behaviour we expect and why not to copy E etc (we do this basically everyday).

I just feel so so sad. While I feel sorry for E and don't blame him (he's copying the language from someone himself I assume), I just hate his influence on my DS. My DS has lots of friends and attends many sports clubs outside school etc... and is always always lovely and polite and kind and sweet in all environments where E is not present. I've spoken to school and they r aware of E and split them up in lesson times, but I just don't know what else to do.

How can I stop my boy copying and playing with him???? I am really worried my DS will adopt Es attitude even when E is not present.

Why does my DS not hang about with the 'nice' kids? He's really sweet

Thank you SeatoSky, I will definitely take a look at that book! Thanks for the tips

I think you need to concentrate on your sons behaviour, not E's. So if he's behaving badly why mention E and not just pull your DS up for it? You set clear expectations for his behaviour when you know E is around and deal with it accordingly when he acts up. You are making E far too enticing though by constantly mentioning him. Perhaps your son is testing boundaries? He is 6, right, and still learning.

I would not expect the behaviour of E to be tolerated by the school if It's really that bad so they should be managing that and your son should also be being disciplined if he copies him. But you might equally want to consider that your son can misbehave autonomously, and also that kids can behave quite differently in different settings.

Maybe getting to know E might be the best thing you could do for your son in the long run?

I've x posted with a few others who suggest similar.

I see you feel the need to keep telling E off. You need to leave that to the school if that is where it is happening or involve his parents outside of school. He may be getting a rise out of pissing you off.

Hi Grabby. I've previously been advised not to encourage the friendship, so it's confusing for me that people are encouraging me to get to know E more. Like I say, I don't doubt there are some positives there, but he is a negative influence on my DS (who, along with his brother, I love to the universe and back). (I have some concerns about neglect with E, and his sister always looks sad and today at the party she (age 3) was sitting alone looking miserable, so I spent a bit of time chatting with her. I've mentioned a couple of things to school and I know they r aware of E and I've seen his mum popping in, so I think school and family are in talks)

The thing I find hardest is that DS hangs about with E at school and I have no control there. At drop off, parties etc.. I can be boundaried with my DS and pull him up when he misbehaves with E. but when I'm not there I just have to leave it to school, and they have too many kids to hall them up on anything but the big stuff. It's the constant, all day everyday impact of E that concerns me. My big fear is that one day, after spending so much time with E, DS won't need E to be mean/rude/etc... and will behave like this without him. At the moment, at least I know DS is lovely when E is not around

Talk to E's parents. My dd had a similar relationship with a girl in reception. They are still friends on and off at the age of 12. Only by talking to the other girls mother did I understand a bit of the feisty behaviour and was able to discuss it with my dd.

DS1 had a similarish friend (horrific language, lack of impulse control or social regulation plus a confrontational attitude to authority). He also had a huge heart, great imagination, so thought up brilliant games, and was genuinely nice to be around when he came to play and was away from his, sweet but struggling, parents.
School was great, tried their best to keep them apart etc but they adored each other and would spend every playtime together.
After an incident where Bad Friend threw stones at the staff’s cars, DS got quite freaked out about getting in that much trouble. We had a chat about how, if he cared about his friend, he could help him not do the wrong thing.
Peer pressure goes both ways and there’s no reason why your DS’s good behaviour couldn’t be the stronger influence.
Getting in trouble is not fun at this age, talk to your DS about his power to affect the direction of play. He doesn’t have to do things he knows are wrong. If he understands social rules and consequences better than his friend then he can save them both from upset and drama.
Have this boy over, get to know him and see how he functions in your house with your rules.
You may find that he’s not as awful as you think and, with some input from you, their friendship could become a very positive thing.

It really winds me up when people blame other children for their child's behaviour. If your son is acting up with him and attracted to that kind of behaviour it is a reflection on him and you as much as it is about the other child.

I sympathise, totally. My ds who is now 15 had an 'E' friend all through primary school. My ds was quite naughty as well up to about Y4 so they gravitated to each other and ds seemed to lose out on other friendship groups because the two of them together were just too loud, bossy and well, naughty for others to want to be around.

It was awkward because as I watched ds grow and mature and start towing the line in school, our E just seemed to get sillier and naughtier but by then it was always E and ds in a little mini group and other kids were wanting to play with ds as he became more ' like them' but E would steamroll in and take over. The last thing we wanted was ds to be left out of any group because it almost became like if you're not playing with me, ill ruin the game for everyone... E would pop footbalss so nobody could play, that type of thing.

Ds moved on, completely, but not til high school. E met another group of E's and gave up on ds eventually. I think it's a very, very difficult situation for you and my only advice would be to encourage as many different out of school activities as possible, especially ones that other kids in his class do. But we just had to sit it out, sorry. Fingers crossed for you.

Atticus has got a good point. OP, you say yourself that your DS is kind, polite, well behaved etc. So, being around E shouldn't be too much of a problem surely? Does your DS understand the behaviour boundaries that are expected of him? If so, there's really no issue. If he's being easily 'led' into poor behaviour by E, then perhaps they're both into the shenanigans together? It won't be helpful for you to put everything on to E, and carve your own DS as completely blameless.

My parents thought my brother was easily led by bad influences. He knew they thought this. He did ask me once why it had never occurred to them that HE was the bad influence. He's a great guy now, but had a few 'lost' years.

Just focus on your own child's behaviour.

I feel bad for him tonight. I said 'it must be hard for you that mummy doesn't really like E that much, and doesnt like you hanging around with him, but he's your friend'
I think that's putting too much pressure on your ds if you're saying that sort of thing.
How would you feel if you found that other parents are saying about your ds "I don't like him and don't want you hanging around with him" which is basically what you've said.

Rather than blaming the other child you need to work on strategies that give your ds the ability to see how to behave.

For what it's worth, I've worked with some lovely, polite, calm, kind little boys who when they get together - havoc! On the days they weren't together, angels. Both of them. Some children just bounce off each other and that can manifest in some really unpleasant behaviour.

Please don't judge the other child too harshly - he may be acting unpleasantly but remember that it's an easy trap to fall into. It's very easy to be silly and rude especially with a friend to back you up. Your child's behaviour should be your focus, and it does sound like you're pressuring him a lot at a very young age to understand how you feel about E's behaviour - obviously I don't know the children he's previously known or the settings he's been in, but he may not have experienced this type of behaviour before.

If you can keep them apart, do (e.g. parties and playdates) but trust that their teacher and TA is aware of the issue, because they absolutely are. You're going about it a right way in talking to him when his behaviour is unacceptable. Don't compare him to E. It's about him at that time.

I agree, you need to focus on your DS’s behaviour - not Es. I sympathise as I know you just want your son to have lovely, well behaved friends but you can’t control this - other than not actively encouraging the friendship.

I have DSs, both of whom have ‘naughty’ friends. I just encourage my own children to ‘do the right thing’ and not get involved in naughty behaviour themselves. One of my sons would be mortified to get into trouble at school, so despite having these friends, never behaves badly himself. My other DS is less bothered about getting into trouble, but knows I absolutely won’t tolerate bad behaviour from him, and is very compliant and good at home, and I am reasonably confident he will make the right choices with regards to his behaviour at school going forward, despite what his friends might be doing themselves.

I think you need to crack down on your sons behaviour, rather than put pressure on him not to be friends with E.

Maybe E's parents think your son is a bad influence. I agree with others, why is he so easily led? Work on his self esteem so he is not a follower or weak-willed.

I agree with those saying you need to concentrate on DS's behaviour but I also think you should discourage this friendship as much as possible and ask for the school's support in this.

To paraphrase an oft used MN response, you don't have an E problem, you have a DS problem.

Presumably E doesn't have all the children flocking around him. Some will be irritated by his behaviour and avoid him. Some won't want to get involved/in trouble and so give him a wide berth. Your son is seeking him out. It's a friendship and behaviour he's choosing.

All the 'high energy' kids are lovely and sweet when they're on their own

I think you need to start accepting that 'birds of a feather flock together' and speak with the school directly about how you can work together to manage your son's behaviour in school and leave the other boy out of it.

Invite him for tea. Pull him up on every bit of bad behaviour - tell him you don't accept that in your house..
^He won't want to come over and will likely drop your ds. .
Been there and done this!!
It worked!!^

Thus tactic worked for us too. I invited the “E” of ds’s Class for tea. His behaviour was awful the whole time, to the extent that DS (and even 5 to dd) commented a d discussed it later. DS has not mentioned this boy since.

Going a bit against the grain here...
My DB and I were always friends with the naughty kids. Despite being well behaved at home and with others, we did get pulled along for the ride with our naughty friends. These kids didn't have boundaries at home and played up to it majorly. We liked it because it was always exciting.

Our DM always encouraged other friendships, but still had the naughty friends round for dinner. Whenever they or we played up, DM and DF always pulled us up on it and depending on the the situation we were sometimes punished (no pudding/no toys/no phones) and it always discussed.
They never talked badly about our friends as people, but they did talk about why their behaviour was bad.

When we were teenagers these friendships fizzled out. They became too much too handle and it was exhausting. I had one particular friend who it became fairly obvious had borderline personality disorder, she was a lot of fun but it was always high drama. My DB's friend was banned from our house (because he wrecked things for fun) but DB was still allowed to spend time with him.

Now DB and I are mid-late twenties, neither of us have friendships with high-drama people, as we experienced it as children and our parents let it happen. We're both doing well, and in very healthy, happy relationships.

I think if they had tried to control our friendships more, we probably would have put up a fight and caused more issues than it's worth.

Slightofmind - thank you thank you for your post. Sounds just like my situation and given me lots of food for thought.

Just reading the other posts now ...

Atticus - I don't disagree, but don't know what to do about it!!! If DS is always well behaved when E is not around, and I am not in school to implement things when they r together, it sometimes feels there is little I can do! But some posters have given me some tips which is really helpful!

I know witchend! But what kind of strategies? I like the suggestions from sleight...

Thanks Imdoinglaundry and everyone else. I do feel really bad now for tying to stop the friendship and control who DS sees. It so hard being a mum sometimes! I will try really hard to pull back a bit. If E is mean or gets in trouble, I'll take it through with DS and allow him to see the actions as wrong, rather than vent my frustations. I guess I have to allow the friendship as DS has chosen to be friends with E

You have all been really helpful, thank you. Thanks especially slight... Von... and imdoinglaundry....

Sorry 'talk it through' not 'take it through'

No problem I can see how it'd be so difficult. DS1 doesn't have any friendships like this at the moment, but it'll happen in the future.
I'm sure my parents felt conflicted and worried if they were doing the right thing, but in the end it all worked out for the best.

During my first year as a student nurse we had lots of lectures on child development, it helped me to see that talking calmly and honestly with children can help them to draw their own conclusions.
Giving them the option to make decisions for themselves tends to work well and dials down the stress for everyone involved.

I hope things work out well with your DS

I had this with ds1 at this age. I moved him school. Not because if it but it did really help. They still saw each other but no where near as much.

They are now in the same high school. I was really worried abiut this. Me and ds1 habe talked about the boys behaviour and thankfully is coming to his own conclusions abiut him. If told him he can still be friends but he needs to be carefull because others will assume he is like his friend and will get the same rep as him..