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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to expect a secondary school French teacher to know French?

115 replies

bonbonours · 18/10/2017 22:11

DD1 just started year 7, having learnt French since toddlerhood as I teach it. Obviously she is finding she knows a lot of the French she is being taught at school which is fine.
She brought home a piece of homework where they had to match phrases in English and French, and in two of the phrases it used the word porte and the English it was supposed to match with was window. DD1 knows porte means door but she is not brave enough to say so to her teacher.

Should I be THAT mum and make a comment about it? Her French teacher is German which is a bit odd, but I assumed she also spoke fluent French. I'm now not so sure....

OP posts:

IHATEPeppaPig · 19/10/2017 04:41

Some of the responses to the OP are incredible - I know that teachers work extremely hard, that it is a demanding job and there have been ridiculous cuts but expecting a basic level of understanding of a subject is surely not asking too much?

Of course her 11 year old isn't confident enough to point out a mistake to a teacher and judging by the posts I can see why.

OP I would approach the teacher and discuss this with her.

JimLahey · 19/10/2017 04:48

Peppa Not sure if I'm one of the people who you were referring to but if I made a mistake I'd own it and thank someone for pointing it out. I'd hate it if a child felt they couldn't approach me, no matter how embarrassing.

I'm just trying to come at it from a different angle and also suggest the OP keeps a close eye on the future. If something else happens then I'd discuss it.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 19/10/2017 04:52

I don't agree that the OP should wait until the next time - THIS error needs to be fixed!

JimLahey · 19/10/2017 04:57

Fair enough. Of course if that's what the OP feels she must do then by all means. This is her child's French education and it's important.

I'm just a bit of a softy I suppose..

Fffion · 19/10/2017 05:05

A lot of schools expect their MFL teachers to teach more than one language, so sometimes a new recruit will be teaching their non-preferred language for the first time to KS3, with the expectation of keeping ahead of the students. They are unlikely to be teaching that language at GCSE or A-level. It's a combination of easy timetabling/staffing, and professional development.

The same thing happens in Science teaching.

JimLahey · 19/10/2017 05:16

Thinking about it the German for window if Fenster. Really similar to the French so it's a bit weird the teacher got it wrong. ( Not defending the teacher on this- just thinking out loud )

BoomBoomsCousin · 19/10/2017 05:23

YANBU to be concerned about it and YWNBU to raise it with the teacher, but what would you hope to get out of mentioning it?

When I was in school 30+ years ago our school struggled to get decent French teachers. We had teachers whose main language was German doing French, a teacher whose accent (not a French accent) was so strong we couldn't understand her English, let alone her French and a GCE year of substitute teachers, few of whom were language teachers at all, while they tried to fill an empty position. My understanding is that qualified MFL graduates have been getting more scarce since then. So even if the teacher is not good enough, it may be the best you'll get.

It may be your comments prompt the teacher to brush up a bit. Is that something language teachers can do reasonably easily? Since you're a French teacher yourself, maybe you could offer ideas? Are there courses the teacher could take that would help? If so talking to the head might help free up training funds (if they have any). If the teacher is making such basic mistakes, they're probably already feeling like they're in over their head anyway, so it may ultimately be a bit pointless mentioning it unless you can offer some suggestions.

teaandbiscuitsforme · 19/10/2017 05:32

Yes she should have got it right and yes you know you need to correct it in a quiet and appropriate manner.

For those of you saying you expect your child to be taught by a specialist, blah blah - excellent idea! I’m sure the school think exactly the same!! However there is no importance placed on learning languages in the U.K. any more so kids are choosing other subjects, not studying languages at university and therefore recruiting MFL teachers is near enough impossible in some areas/for some languages.

Not excusing schools not employing specialists or this particular teacher but there is a major MFL crisis in the U.K. But never mind because ‘Great Britain’ and all that; they’ll all speak English

MyOtherProfile · 19/10/2017 05:41

Do you never slip up in English? I do. I would be sure she knows the correct word but slipped up it doesn't need to be a bit thing. Just drop the teacher an email to say oops just spotted a little mistake that confuses dd... thought you'd like to know cos I would if it was me. Job done.

If there are always lots of mistakes that will be different but accidentally putting window instead of door?

Broken11Girl · 19/10/2017 05:42

I can definitely see why an 11yo wouldn't want to dare question a teacher, given certain other threads...if she had posters would be slating her as an unbearable disruptive brat. I'm sick of the teachers are infallible angels brigade.
However bad the recruitment situation in MFL, even if this teacher is just keeping ahead of the students, she should know the material securely. Door/ window is very basic.

Puffthemagicdragongoestobed · 19/10/2017 05:48

Are you sure that the exercise wasn't about matching similar things? I.e. Windows with doors or cars with bikes. I am finding it hard to believe that the teacher wouldn't know the correct word for window. Or otherwise it was just sloppy. How is the teacher otherwise?

I recently started looking into a career in teaching and to teach one language they require you to teach a second one as well so that would be the reason why a German teacher also teaches French.

When I was about 11 I got confused by something a teacher had written on the board and asked him about it. It turned out to be a mistake on his part and he wiped it off the board. I think your DD could just ask the teacher in this way.

YokoReturns · 19/10/2017 05:49

It’s a typo FFS. This isn’t indicative of some huge crisis in MFL teaching. The teacher won’t mind the mistake being pointed out at all.

guinea36 · 19/10/2017 06:19

Of course the teacher should know this! It’s depressing teachers are on here making excuses for this.
They’ve abundant holidays to go and get to grips with the language.

PseudoLadyOfTheHouse · 19/10/2017 06:26

guinea most teachers I know spend their 'abundant holidays recovering from the 80-hour weeks they do in term time.... they also spend at least half of the summer in the school getting their classrooms ready for Sept because they won't have time when term kicks in.

Having said that, I write/proofread things for a living and would be horrified at such a basic error in my child's set homework. If they miss something obvious, what are they missing that's subtle?

ohreallyohreallyoh · 19/10/2017 06:27

Yes, I should bear the cost of travel and accommodation every holiday to improve my weaker language. Never mind what other expenses I may have, differences in holiday dates with my children's school, family commitments etc. I should be out there putting myself out 52 weeks of the year to improve your child's education. No rest for the wicked, eh?

And yes Yoko, it is very much indicative of a crisis in MFL in this country - not only in teaching, but with the quiet closure of uni departments, lack of investment, couldn't give a shit parents etc etc etc. Bring on Brexit, we are linguistically very poorly prepared for that one.

CauliflowerSqueeze · 19/10/2017 06:37

What a great big fuss about one word.
She should just write “window=fenêtre?” And that’s the end of it.

at least two think it's ok to just offer one language
No they don’t think it’s ok. There is just not the staffing around to offer it. No point offering a subject that you may not be able to fill with a teacher.

alltheworld · 19/10/2017 06:47

If you don't teach mfl you won't create teachers to teach it. So I guess the fault lies with the government. The reason I was given by one school as to why they only offered one language was that languages were hard which makes me think they just want to look good in the league tables. Languages are not necessarily harder than other subjects

CauliflowerSqueeze · 19/10/2017 06:53

Yes languages are harder. Results across the country are just over half a grade lower than other subjects, along with physics.
This makes the subjects less attractive for schools who are judged on league tables.
Numbers gaining the top grade (A* up till this year) are very low and of course native speakers skew this.

Maelstrop · 19/10/2017 06:56

Op, write a note on the worksheet so it's seen but your dd doesn't have to say anything if she feels she can't, although my little vipers in the making, however shy, would feel able to tell me and I would be very apologetic or do the 'You spotted the deliberate error' whilst clearly showing the kids that I was taking the mick out of myself. I used a worksheet in class this week which had il il written on it and avoid already conjugated on one question when the students were meant to conjugate it. Bad me. I changed it on screen when they pointed it out.

MFL teaching is in huge crisis. The school I worked in previously has one GCSE class in Year 10 this year, 4 three years ago. This wasn't a teacher recruitment or lack of students wanting to do it, it was management limiting their options and creaming off the top kids to do Triple Science instead, ticks bucket 2 on the ebacc, don't you know. :(

I'm now in a school where MFL is core and we cannot recruit a decent teacher (and yes, we had one who couldn't speak one of the languages she was supposed to, but the agency claimed she could)

araiwa · 19/10/2017 06:57

Its a mistake that will probably be corrected in next class

If there were constant eerors then i might start questioning it, but one?

Schmoopy · 19/10/2017 06:59

It needs correcting, but it's just a mistake. People make mistakes at work every day (and it's a tiny mistake in the grand scheme of things). Just correct it on the worksheet and send it in.

It's unlikely you're the only person who's noticed.

It doesn't mean she doesn't have a basic knowledge of the subject she's teaching (as has been suggested), it means she's made a small error, and one where most people could probably work out how it had happened, if they dropped the vitriol against teachers.

MaisyPops · 19/10/2017 07:02

So there was a mistake on something. Ok. Call the head. Offer your expert input go upskill the teacher. Lament the state of an entire subject.

Or accept (like all humans) people make mistakes.

Dear me. I made a daft mistake in a model answer (started a sentence, went to deal with an on call sitiation, came back and started a new sentence = 2 half sentences tjat made no sense). My class pointed it out and had a laugh, I said sorry and laughed and corrected it. We all moved on.
I'm glad no parent felt they needed to call and complain because there was a mistake and they love feeling superior.

Uokbing · 19/10/2017 07:02

This was almost definitely a typo:

even I know the French for door and window and I am nowhere near French teaching calibre.
if she didn't actually know it she would have actually had to look it up thereby getting it right.
if the German for window is very similar it's unlikely she got it so wrong.
if it was an English worksheet and there was a mistake would you.assume she didn't know English?

That she had is probably one of about 50 billion worksheets the teacher has made this week, most likely in a mad 'oh bollocks I havent done a sheet for Year 7s homework yet' rush.

Just get your DD to check it with her. If she is scared to do this then that's another issue.

WhatwouldAryado · 19/10/2017 07:03

It's not always possible to get good teachers who have a good command of a language. I remember our French teacher. She was a native French speaker, so would have your vote.
Seriously awful teacher though.

Youcanstayundermyumbrella · 19/10/2017 07:03

araiwa, what on earth do you think mansplaining is?

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