To be ashamed of my mum

[strawberries98]

I said to my mum that I was ashamed of her. She was angry and upset.

My reasons were:

• she takes piles of paper towels from public bathrooms and uses them as toilet paper because she thinks buying toilet paper is a waste of money. There is no toilet paper in the house, only paper towels from outside. These are hard and uncomfortable. I said it was stealing but she said it wasn't because it was free for everyone to use. She said she was being practical and trying to save money when she can.

• she doesn't want to throw anything away even though it isn't useful anymore, because she 'paid good money for them'. e.g. clothes that she bought but didn't wear, old children's clothes which I outgrew 20 years ago, old pencils and pens etc. Her house has three rooms (living room, and 2 bedrooms) filled with bin bags, old furniture, crates etc. You can't walk through the corridor, due to old stuff and can't use the rooms. I said that she should sort it out and give it to charity, but she flew into a rage. I managed to organise one bedroom in order to stay in it.

• she doesn't eat anything other than cereal and milk, or chocolate, because she can't afford or is too lazy to go out to the supermarket to buy fresh food. She thinks that cereal has enough vitamins.

• I was resentful as well because growing up, my mum didn't bother to cook or buy food, and therefore we either went without dinner or just ate cereal. I wasn't given much money for food at school, only £1, so I usually ate a plate of plain pasta without sauce. We didn't really have healthy food.

-when I was younger, my sister and I only had showers once a week. We changed clothes about 1-2x a week, including uniforms. Nowadays my mum only has showers once a week, or even less and she thinks it's normal.

-when I was younger, we also skipped school for various reasons: mum couldn't be bothered to walk us to school, we missed the bus, we went on roadtrips etc.

• my mum would teach us to be dishonest and she was proud of it, eg. not paying for train fares by hiding in the toilets, telling us kids off if we paid for train fares, not paying bills by hiding in the house when people came to the house to check the meter.

• she said she has no money to pay for my wedding (which is fine) but she says why should she pay for other people to fill their bellies with nice food? can I not get married, or maybe just get married overseas with no guests.

I think it's abnormal behaviour, but my mum thinks I am being a snob, and being ridiculous.

How you feel about your mum is how you feel. It's not right or wrong. I'm sorry you were so neglected as a child. Your mum is really dysfunctional. She definitely has mental health issues but she has zero insight and is never going to acknowledge that she has problems or even unusual beliefs. You cannot fix her and she does not want to be fixed. Have you talked about your childhood in therapy? I would encourage you to think about your own boundaries and thinking about what is okay for you. I don't feel good about you staying there.

As an aside, sending children to school in the same uniform every day with only a change of socks/underwear is also neglectful and unhygienic.

I’d feel terribly embarrassed if she were my mother. The stealing is shameful but she’s lacking a lot of basic awareness. Therefore, as others have mentioned, it sounds as if she has some deep seated mental health issues. And living in a fantasy.

I was watching a tv programme earlier about extreme cleaners (itv calls the cleaners) going into hoarders houses and cleaning them up
. It is estimated only 5% of hoarders are ever flagged up as having a problem. It would be great if you were able to get your mum some mental help support.

I’m sorry you’ve had such a difficult childhood and I do hope you have a great life and children if that’s what you want.

It will be very hard if not impossible to cure her of this. So you may be better off for your own sake of thinking about how you can manage the contact you have with her to make your relationship less difficult. I'm thinking in terms of taking toilet roll with you when you visit but not challenging or telling her. Don't discuss the wedding with her and accept you will be paying and sorting it all without reference to her.

This probably seems counter intuitive because you want, or feel you ought to, save her. But she doesn't want to be saved, and she'll fight it every inch of the way. Think about whether self preservation is a better tack for you. Given your childhood I think it's justifiable.

OP how would you feel if somebody staying at your house ordered food you didn't want to eat, rearranged your rooms and tried to give your things to a charity shop, saying it was all for your own good?

I get that you feel sad and resentful about your childhood (though much of what you describe sounds like it was as a result of real lack of money in the household?) but trying to control how your mum lives now you are both adults doesn't seem reasonable and will make both of you unhappier.

Just to clarify, is her place council or HA? I ask because often people say council when they mean social housing.

If she is in HA, they often have support workers who could help her to sort it, although if it is as bad as you say, they might end up going in with a team of people and a skip. Not sure of she could cope with that though.

I know my HA do this. They also inspect on a regular basis to ensure it hasn't got bad again.

Other option is to call SS, and report her a vulnerable adult in need. They may then be able to help her. Guide her towards counselling and get practical help with clearing up.

What Butterymuffin said.

It's like being an alcoholic.You can only fix it yourself, someone can't fix it for you.

And it doesn't' sound as if she will accept any help with this.

A plate of plain pasta without sauce? Is that really offered on school menus? Just curious.

Yes - the sauce costs extra and OP only had £1.

I think your mum really needs help OP. I know she acts like she doesn't want or need to change but she will be unhappy like this. She most likely has a great fear of the pain involved in change and so tries to deflect talk of it, but knows she needs to. I could be wrong about that, but even so she still needs help or she will become even more of a practical risk to herself.

Your childhood sounds terrible and I would not blame you if you felt that you are not the person to help her. You sound like you really do care though. She will be very difficult to help and you can only do so much, but I think you should keep trying if you can face it. She is still pretty young really and should be able to make some improvement. I think you need to pressure her to get an expert involved, maybe ring a hoarding support group or charity and see what they advise about how best to access help. I expect it is hard if not impossible to get all the help she needs on the NHS. But she should be able to go on the list for a mental health team referral and possibly get home visits from a mental health nurse. If that seemed to be getting anywhere you could then step in to try to offer practical help. Good luck, and I am sorry for what you have been through.

Op. I don’t think you can help her. As sad as it is, you can only accept her. It’s easy for us to say don’t be embarrassed, because it’s correct you shouldn’t be, it’s not a reflection on you, but I would also be. It’s thr shame of that’s who your parent is and that’s how they chose to live.

You’ve bought her food, you’ve tidied where you can, you’ve visited, I’d let her get on with it, and visit when you can. 💐

YANBU. I'm sorry your childhood was troubled.

Just out of interest, why doesn't she just steal toilet rolls?

@Wisterical, thanks for your perspective and I totally get it wouldn't be nice.
With the clearing of things- my mum complains that there was 'too much junk' over the phone and yet she doesn't want to deal with it when it comes to it. I said lets deal with it now, she just gets really angry and stressed.

She loves having food in the house, but she is just too tight to buy it for herself, or just doesn't care what she eats anymore.

We didn't have a ton of money growing up but I think that was because my dad was too selfish to spend it on us. My dad had properties that he collected rent from, and yet he didn't want to buy a house for us. He would like to buy designer clothes too. He also spent a lot of money on cigarettes. I used to get really angry that he smoked inside the house but he wouldn't care. He even took my sister to school in her pyjamas (which had holes in). My sister and I would sleep on cardboard boxes as makeshift beds, and we would literally wear the same underwear for a week. So disgusting I know.

I don't think it's use to anyone to bring up the past, but I can't have any reasonable conversation with my mum without her getting really angry at me.

By the way, I very much doubt that not eating properly was due to not being able to afford it or to being lazy. She could probably afford a bit more than cereal, and with a mental health disorder and dysfunction on that level being 'lazy' does not really come into it.

Sad story. But I don't think anything will change. It is like the narcissistic mums we read about. Not saying she is horrible to you, but your investment in trying to change her ways will NOT work. The minute you clear out a room, it will be full again in a few days. Thankless task if you ask me.

Seems to me you love your Mum but do not like her much. That is not unusual.

If visiting her town I would stay local and arrange lunch/coffee in a neutral venue. I would not go to her house, that is validating her ways.

She will either meet you or not on neutral territory. If not, I think you will have to back off for a good while.

You will waste far too much of your own emotional well being. She will not change. I know this.

The anger and the stress is caused by fear I am sure. I am so sorry OP, it is so sad to hear what you went through.

@troodiedoo

I think it's easier to steal paper towels than toilet roll as the toilet roll is usually locked. Also the whole roll is pretty huge and hard to hide!!! Sometimes I do see the little square sheets of loo roll about that you can pull out of a dispenser in public loos.

I think what went on in your childhood was abuse. I can’t even imagine treating my DD like that. I hope that upbringing has not scarred you too much OP

Sounds like she is a hoarder and she also has some mental health problems going on. As far as money being tight that may well be true and after what sounds like many years of scrimping and saving, due to her mental state she has develped some money saving tactics that are a little ott.

As far as people telling you to go NC - shame on them. She needs your help - not a daughter leaving her. Please don't be ashamed of her - speak to your doctor and they will put you in touch with peope who can help both of you. I think you need also need help because your childhood experience will have left it's mark on you too.

Congrats on the wedding

Hoarding IS a mental health problem. notangelinajolie I'm sure you mean well but that is all terrible advice based on a real lack of knowledge.

We have a problem like this with an elderly relative. SS will step in to deal with this as it is a recognised mental illness at this level. It is dangerous both to your mother and the other occupants of her block and if she is not putting the rubbish out she is effectively living in vermin attracting squalor. Please call SS OP and stay out of it whilst they go in and enforce a clean up. for you

Asking for help is terrible advice?

agree it sounds like she has hoarding issues - including hoarding money. Hoarders are generally selfish people, and stuff (including money) is more important than anything else, include their own and their children's health.

She might well be happy to have food in the house, but holding on to her money and 'winning' against others is more important.

The stuff about the wedding I can see as well, she genuinely can't see the point in spending money, because the priority should be at all times to hoard as much as possible. Chosing to spend money beyond the bare minimum is pointless, so you are being stupid and feckless.

You will never win an argument with her because she genuinely thinks you are crazy to prioritise anything above saving money and stuff.

You might need counselling to help you deal with your childhood and detatch from her behaviour.

If your mum is in a block of flats or row of houses something must be done, the fire risk is huge.

Poor you sounds as if you had a shit time growing up.
Most folk who have a clinical hoarding disorder don't come into services... Or if they do it's usually when there's a crisis... The house is falling down (yes really - I worked with a bloke where he had ignored water coming in... Soaking all his hoarded stuff which eventually, over years, rotted the floorboards...) or more usually a partner is threatening to leave, or council involvement... Where their environment is so unsafe its a threat to surrounding properties...

I would give the council a ring, in the first instance, just for advice...

Does she have enough money to live on? If she has money for loo roll, decent food, hot water etc but is choosing to go without then her behaviour is very odd. If for some reason she is unable to afford those things then she needs to make sure she is accessing any benefits she's entitled to/gets debt advice etc.