to think that if this pic of the Portugal sky doesn't make you take climate change seriously, nothing will?

[ArcheryAnnie]

Just posted this on another thread, and then thought fuck it, more people need to see this.

I felt really quite unsettled by the yellow sky and red sun yesterday. I have been trying to think how people in the paths of the recent hurricanes have been feeling, especially in Puerto Rico. And then I saw this photo of what the sky looked like over Portugal with the wildfires, and it's absolutely terrifying.

What will it take to make more people take climate change seriously, and more importantly, act on it?

For those of you arguing that the climate has always changed, and saying we might not be making it worse, just look here:

xkcd.com/1732/

@Kursk the UN Climate Change Committee disagrees with you on this one. So do most of the reputable scientists in this area.

Xkcd as a source? And no, sorry this is not the 'most compelling' photograph as far as climate change is concerned.

No it isn't the most compelling photograph on climate change, bluebells, but it made an impression on me.

There's a lot of other compelling photos and information out there, but for a lot of people, unless it affects them directly, personally, right now, they don't seem to care much. This made an impression on me because I'd been so unsettled at the yellow sky, and then I thought how much more frightened I'd be at the Portuguese sky. It's a tangible thing, and tangible things sometimes motivate people to act.

Scientists agree, it is happening now. We did it.

It makes me take fires seriously - does that help?

Members of my family have lost almost everything to these fires in the last few days. Arsonists. A lot more sickening for them than climate change.

I'm not minimising climate change though, I think it's a real issue and do what I can (renewable energy etc.)

er yes, xkcd as a source. Because he quotes the sources he got the data from and it's an excellent visualisation.

That's awful, MoralBeryl, I am so sorry.

(Although the scientific consensus seems to think it's arsonists and climate change - and other things - responsible together, not either/or.)

Agreed, Daffydil!

I keep on thinking "at what point will denial and nitpicking flip over to action?" and I keep on being disappointed.

What do you all think is creating the environmental/weather conditions that are allowing these unusually bad fires to spread?

Nonsense, one picture is absolutely meaningless and proves nothing in this case. Besides, it's a picture of a fire I believe. I believe climate change is a real threat but that picture is rubbish.

Forest/wildfires are linked to the climate - hotter dry summers = tinder box landscape.

I'm a bit suspicious of the 'arsonists' explanation. Portugal has had a horrible drought which is a big part of the reason for the fires (so yes, climate change) but also a crap record of forest management making them more vulnerable. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-40341180 So I feel like the government is trying to deflect criticism from themselves for not having improved anything since 64 people died in the summer by talking about arson. Maybe I'm being too cynical though!

YAB a bit U, sorry.
Climate change exists.
It is almost certainly happening faster as a result of human action.
We are damaging the environment in many different ways around the world.

However, a red sun and forest fires are not in themselves proof of climate change. Yes, some of the conditions behind what caused them may have been exacerbated by climate change but even if humans had never existed there would still be all sorts of wacky weather events. Trends say far more about what is happening than isolated events do - no matter how dramatic that isolated event is. Especially as it could be tempting to treat weather happening near us as more indicative of global trends than weather happening in far off places which would be obviously be wrong.

There is plenty of really good evidence out there, but this isn't it.

Totally agree squishy that long term trends are the truest source of evidence of climate change, however pictures like this are dramatic, and I suspect dramatic is needed to shock many people out of denial. Statistics not so much.

These sort of fires have been around for so long some plants have evolved to require them

www.britannica.com/list/5-amazing-adaptations-of-pyrophytic-plants

CaptainsCat You may well be right, but I do sometimes worry that the oversimplification of climate science, although it may be done with the best of intentions, can sometimes undermine it: It hands amno to those who have both an interest in denying climate change and enough understanding to see through fudges and simplifications.

The irony is we only worry about climate change for selfish reasons. Should climate change wipe us out then Earth will start over.

Oh, for fucks' sake!

NOWHERE DID I SAY THAT THIS FIRE IS "PROOF" OF CLIMATE CHANGE. We already know climate change exists! All the scientific assessment is that climate change is a significant factor in these fires, alongside some other stuff!

There are many, many, many more photos of the effects of climate change, but this is one that had quite a visceral impact on me, which is why I decided to share.

But please, nitpick all you like, while the planet goes to shit.

however pictures like this are dramatic, and I suspect dramatic is needed to shock many people out of denial. Statistics not so much

Exactly this, CaptainsCat.

Climate change is 100% a driving factor behind these fires.

The forests were dry because autumn rains have not come this year, after a dry summer, after a dry, hot spring and heatwave after heatwave all year.

Temperatures are still very high. Friends in Portugal were tweeting that it was 30º and higher on Sunday - that's in the second half of October - and 24º at night. Not normal. In Galicia, they call the danger zone 30-30-30: over 30º, under 30% humidity and winds over 30 kmph. Again, really weird for October. These factors came together on Sunday because of anomalous climatic conditions.

But remember that we've also been getting less and less rain across the Iberian peninsula for years now: hotter average temperatures throughout the year, hotter summers, with more and longer heatwaves, more areas reaching record maximum temperatures.

The heat and the lack of water is killing the trees. Some species faster than others. Where I live I have a view of a vast hillside covered in Mediterranean forest: the forest agency reckons about 25% of the trees are dying or in a state of extreme stress. The rest are just dry. Everywhere, along the roads, in parks, round agricultural land, there are dead trees, dead bushes and dry undergrowth.

When the wind blows, tinder-dry trees and dead undergrowth are a bomb waiting to be set off.

The authorities blame arsonists and careless local farmers burning waste or deliberately using fire to clear land. But it would be strange that on the same day, at the same time, across huge areas of Portugal, Galicia, Asturias and Léon, all the firestarters went out together. Maybe the first fires were started by farmers or arsonists, but the way they spread, so fast and so destructively, is to do with parched forest, dry air, high temperatures and hot winds. And the increasing prevalence of those conditions (in October!) is down to climate change.

The authorities blame individuals because we can understand a human enemy in our midst, it's a problem we could work at solving. Public education campaigns, work to clear dead undergrowth, more firefighters, better co-ordination, more forestry patrols. All good things.

But the underlying cause is climate change, it's here and it's getting worse.

I've read reports that many of the fires in Portugal were started deliberately (that doesn't necessarily imply arson) — where are people getting arson from?

Isn't arson the deliberate starting of fires?

elpapadelapepa good post. Another [man-made] contributing factor is the huge eucalyptus farms replacing natural flora in Portugal. Eucalyptus is extremely flammable.