to think men and women should be counted in the census?

[Sunkisses]

The Office of National Statistics have recently 'tentatively recommended' that the question about what sex we are should be deleted from the census, so not to upset the tiny transgender part of the population. This has massive implications for the whole of society. We need the data on our biological sex to measure important things like life expectancy, sex discrimination, the gender pay gap, and inequality in childcare, social care, housing and health. The ONS rejected sensible options like asking people about both their sex and their gender identity (which would help us actually know how big the trans population actually is). To me, this recommendation seems utterly crazy.

Please consider signing this petition to the government, to keep the sex category in the 2021 census: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/202435

For more background, please see this article here: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/feminists-fight-to-keep-gender-question-in-census-vqv3lr9gj

Okay. I understand that some posters are concerned about this being a trans bashing thread by stealth, but, wherever you sit on the trans issue, this is a seriously misguided decision.

We NEED to collate stats on biological sex for provision planning.

Disease spread
Resource planning
Healthcare provision by region
Housing needs
Education and school planning
Public facilities
Hospitals - new builds/closures
Monitoring pay gaps and trends
Measuring poverty levels by region

There are probably loads more, but we need to know who is in our population in order to both plan services and make sure differing groups of people in different areas aren't disproportionately affected by different factors.

It also affects school and education and healthcare planning for childbirth and infants/children.

Just put the trans issue aside for a second and think about this. This isn't really about trans, it's about enabling the data collection that allows our public services to work as efficiently and fairly as possible.

And if you are concerned about trans issues, then it seems obvious that we also need to collect accurate info by both sex and Gender Identity in order to make provision in those areas too. Transgender people don't suddenly stop suffering from sex based illnesses (prostate cancer, ovarian cancer etc) because they have transitioned, so they need to be included in healthcare planning too.

Signed and shared.

This information is needed to plan all kinds of services.

Surely though it would BENEFIT the trans community for them to be counted specifically, as we do with other groups that suffer discrimination and need specific support.

We would be able to count the numbers - correctly attribute and verify the hopeful decrease in harassment, see whether they are being discriminated against, that there are enough services provided for them - because they say there are not enough clinics, but if the NHS doesnt know the numbers or where there are clusters of groups geographically within the country. We could target specific help and hopefully chart a reduction in suicide rates that they say are so high. Given enough of a population it could justify a specific prison unit and prevent the arguments around that situation, same with other specialist services. I dont know why they would not want this information to be gathered if it would actually go a very long way to helping that community.

This is so misguided. I use the sex statistics from the census for work. We need to know if for example in a small area, there are lots of single men living there, or lots of single women. This information is needed to plan services.

And agree this isn't about trans issues.
Ask a separate question about transgender if you want. But don't get rid of this question. I really hope this is a mad idea that has been floated, that no one is seriously considering. As if it happens, it will have an impact on my job. It is so so misguided.

That's a good point NettleTea. Even back to health, transition or not, the checks of some cancers needs to be done based on your biology so wouldn't having information on who needs these checks done sensitively?

Of course then I think, well, we need those for survivors of abuse too and we don't question on that so why not just treat everyone sensitively?

YANBU

Yes, people don't realise how important the data is in the census for planning services. In the Times article it quotes the following academics and policymakers:

Mr Portes, former chief economist at the Department for Work and Pensions, said the move would make it much more difficult to track and tackle issues such as the gender pay gap and inequality in childcare, social care, housing and health. “It’s difficult to think of a public policy area where that data is not relevant,” he said.

Sir Michael Marmot, a global authority on health inequality, said he used the gender-specific measure of data all the time in his work advising governments on how to tackle health inequality. “Certainly, it is of scientific and public health interest to know what is happening to men and to women and to gender differences,” he said.

“For example, when we look across Latin America, we see that the female disadvantage in education has been reduced but women still earn much less than men. I appreciate the difficulty of getting a good question on transgender, but we do need to keep getting numbers on males and females.”

Danny Dorling, professor of geography at the Oxford University Centre for the Environment, said the reason data was collected by sex was “rarely about biology” but rather to understand how men and women were disproportionately affected by social, economic and political change. “We would be unable to calculate the most basic of social statistics — life expectancy,” he said.

YANBU. What utter rediculous nonsense.

Petition signed!

As well as signing, could people share the petition on their own social media timelines? I think they need 100,000 signatures before this is discussed in parliament, so we need to spread the word.

Signed. heavy sigh FGS...

YANBU

Let them have an “other” box
^But do not get rid of it.
^
It would make the census less meaningful and mean we could not see any differences.
Sex on the census is important.

This cannot be allowed to happen.

Signed!
This is very important.

Signed.

Signed and shared.

Signed.

Signed. Just to reiterate what other posters have said, this isn’t a trans bashing thread. It’s so important to have accurate data for all the reasons given above. Please sign!

RoseAndRose
The third should surely be intersex

Intersex is different to trans.

Yes, I know that.

Which is why I thought they should be its own category.

Based on biology (with a subdivision for how they choose to live)

Nothing to do with trans whatsoever. A proposal for an additional, totally different category.

Apologies for any lack of clarity.

(I don't think people realise that intersex isn't that uncommon)

I've signed. I don't understand why they can't keep sex and add an optional gender identity option. Surely that is a simple solution that preserves the original data and adds further information. It's important to record biological sex and with the current issues and publicity/propaganda that make it seem that everyone and their dog is trans, recording gender identity would allow actual numbers to be seen so that any changes in policy can take into account the amount of people who would be affected. (i.e. don't make changes that disadvantage 50% of people for the sake of

Signed!

I am sure this has already been said, but being cynical it could be that the trans debate is nothing but a smokescreen in order to deliberately make it more difficult to collect these statistics and thus perhaps obstruct issues like moving toward equal pay law etc.

It is so obviously necesary to collect these statistics, and the downsides of not colecting so obvious and so significant, that perhaps there is another reason this is even being contemplated, because I don't beleive this is just about transpeople.

I mean, the govt give no such consideration to any other marginalised groups - just look at the way they treat the sick and disabled. So why do they care so much about about trans people? It is would be very out of character for them to care so much to do this for one group.

I don't believe they care about anything other than an economy that keeps themselves and their mates in the money - certainly, I don't believe the majority of the government give two shits about midwives etc or making life fairer for the average and/or poor person.

I personally wouldn't put it past many in the governemnt to be perfectly happy to sacrifice what is obviously very necessary data, in order not to burden big business with having to finally address issues such as equal pay and to benefit from being let of the hook in the future by having inaccurate or unavailable figures.

There is also still a huge section of men (and in the ingrained misogyny in some women) who don't want to relinquish any more of their advantages to women. Combine this desire to see the preservation of their power, the preservation of the their money and preservation of the staus quo, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if some saw this as an opportunity to pursue their own agenda by piggybacking it onto (and exploiting) a 'trendy' cause.

If Brexit goes ahead there will be no redress to the European courts for issues of fairness and discrimination and the govt of the day can do what they like.

You only have to look to America to see that such regression is entirely possible and perhaps much wished for in secret by some/ many/ enough.

Whether you agree with my thoughts or not, there are only 3300 or so signatures so far - we need to do more to get the number up.

Yes, when you consider what hoops the sick and disabled go though to be believed even with Dr's statements, it makes you incredulous.

This is an important petition.