Was I mean to DS?

[ChickenLegz]

Quick back story - I'm remarried and my two boys from PR live with us. They're 16 and 18.

Since June it's been a nightmare. They left college/school and basically did nothing for 3 months. Just dossed around the house making a mess, nattering for money and getting under each other' feet. DS1 started local uni end of September but although it's supposed to be a full time course, he only seems to be there for two hours max a few times a week meaning he's STILL constantly moping around the house in his dressing gown eating and making a mess. Cooking and leaving shit all over the kitchen, pissing all over the bathroom etc etc. DS2 is still doing nothing (we're working on it with support) meaning he's constantly in the house but he's worse, he steals, has girls back and is smoking dope. Basically we're having a right time of it.

On top of the obvious concerns DH and I never get a break, there is always "something" going on. We never get time on our own and our marriage is suffering.

This Saturday the boys were meant to be staying at their dad's house. It's the first time DH and I have been alone for months. We got a takeaway, opened a bottle of wine and sat down to cuddle on the sofa with a movie. It was bliss.

Then at 9pm DS1 strolls through the front door saying he couldn't be arsed to stay at his dad's. I lost my shit and shouted at him that he had to go. He said "I'm an adult, I can do what I want" and I had to bite my tongue and stop myself from shouting "yes you're an adult, so move out!". I didn't say it but I'm so fed up and exhausted with the pair of them that i genuinely thought it.

I forced him to go. He wasn't happy and then I felt guilty but I'm really at the end of my tether with the pair of them. I never get a break. They're always THERE. We go to bed on a night and all we can hear is DS1 battering away on his computer keyboard, early hours of the morning doors flying open, toilet flushing, doors slamming shut - its CONSTANT. DH and I don't even have sex anymore as DS1 is constantly in his adjoining bedroom making a racket and it puts us off.

WIBU to make him go? All this "I'm 18, I can do what I want!" Is making me want him to move out. I need space. I feel suffocated.

DH and I have been together for years. It's not a new relationship!

Also it's not me that arranges the contact with his dad, it was arranged by them and then DS just decides he can't be arsed and changes plans at the last minute, lying to his dad saying he's working just because he wants to come home and play computer games all night instead.

When I suggested he get student accommodation if he didn't like our rules he said it wasn't an option as he didn't want to pay rent. He wanted to keep all his student loan to himself.

I suspect he didn't want to go to his fathers home because there are 'house rules' he has to comply with.

Set out rules, teenagers (from long experience ) will test and try your patience and your house rules. If you don't have any yet, then you need t put some in.

One of mine stormed off to her dearest darling and generous father (yes I'm being sarcastic ) when she was home from uni and stayed for the week! I was really upset, as she said on leaving....'I'm never staying here ever again!"

Result of staying with dearest darling generous father? She's never stayed there again and comes home to me, helps out, cooks, cleans up, feeds the animals, yes still has tantrums, but I think that week at her fathers did our relationship a huge favour!

I feel your pain Chicken - my DS is not quite on the same scale as yours, but drives me up the wall sometimes and his night at his dad's is the only respite I get. Since he's been driving he no longer goes with his siblings and says he'll go on his own, but rarely does, so even when I think i have a quiet night to myself with DP in strolls DS moaning that there's nothing he wants to eat and leaving crap everywhere. At least he's not bugging me for lifts anymore!

I dont know what the answer is, as trying to domesticate him is a huge job if he can't even pee straight (or at least wipe up after himself) but I've found that just chipping away at it, every day, please can you sort this, tidy this, help with this etc for the past two years, finally this week he asked if there was anything that needed doing before he went out I said the dishwasher needs emptying. He went out and forgot to do it, but I felt stupidly grateful that he'd asked and then he did it the following day

I regularly end up in tears over the way he talks to me, the entitled attitude etc and I know people will judge me for my failings as a parent, but my other DCs prove that it isn't the parenting at fault here, it's just him. He has regularly told me that there's no point punishing him, as he won't learn but something is sinking in.

Is it possible to talk to his dad, get him on side with you? I think it was after his dad saw how he talks to me that he finally offered to help with the dishwasher, so I wonder if he had a word.

It makes me sad that these useless men go out into the world and make some other woman's life a misery and people will say "why did his mum let him get away with that behaviour?" when invariably, we spend all our energy trying to get some respect and banging our heads against the wall.

I think you're getting a bit of a hard time here OP. I can't see where opting out of parenting co-incided with your remarriage. It's also a bit pointless to say that if the marriage hadn't broken down you would have the boys 24/7 when it has and it sounds like they are with you most of the time anyway!
However, I do think issues like this stem from not having firm ground rules from a younger age. Things like food in bedrooms.
In your position, I'd try talking to them first (which you have done) and set some realistic rules. Their rooms aren't going to be always tidy, but maybe once a week all empty cups, plates etc get brought down, beds changed etc.
Consequences are hard to enforce at this age, but removal of wifi as a last result and maybe the use of 'if the floor isn't clear, I will come in with a bin bag and take the lot'. The drugs and stealing I would find very hard to deal with, does he steal from you or other people?
Our eldest boy did bring drugs home once in his teens, DH smelt it, knew what it was and told him it wasn't allowed and they talked about the issue. I think he continued smoking the stuff but was more discrete and didn't do it at home.

I don’t think you were mean at all; not one little bit. They had made arrangements which meant you had the house to yourself and could do what you want for the evening, so they really should have stuck to it. Good for you for standing up to him on this occasion - I think you have let things drift for far to long. Could this be the start of a new assertive you?

Don't give him money
Don't buy any food like pot noodles etc
Don't give them lifts
Put dirty pots etc on his bed
Ask girls to leave
Hide valuables/store them elsewhere
Change the wifi password

Take a hard line, this shit will not stand in your house anymore.

^this

Tell him when he behaves like an adult he will be treated like one, definitely tell girls to leave your house even if they are, ahem, in the middle of something. Who pays for their mobile phone contract? If they've got money for drugs etc they can afford their own phones.

He wanted to keep all his student loan to himself.

If he is taking out student loans to cover what would be rent get him paying dig money at home (and if you want save it for later when he might really need it).

Stop being a walk over, the boys are behaving like this as you are making them abide by any house rules or dealing with their behaviour with consequences.

Dirty dishes in the washer with clean, rubbish in the bedroom, pissing all over the bathroom etc - these won't change unless he's forced to do it himself. As it's a family home you obviously can't leave the communal areas in this state, so he won't start doing things for himself until he lives alone. I know I didn't have any pride in my surroundings until I moved out! Was great to be flung out into the world to fend for myself (in hindsight, obvs, and I wasn't kicked out, I wanted to leave). Doesn't he want some independence?

If you are good terms with their father I would chat with him about the issues too so that you present a united front.
If you can afford it, take a weekend away with your DH so you can have some time together.
I think that you and your DH need to sit down and agree the ground rules for the house, then you need to sit with each boy in turn (not together) and talk. I think that it is important that you are firm but fair and realistic in your expectations. For me drugs would be an absolute No and I would also expect to be asked if it is ok for guests to be brought into the home.
I probably wouldn't take rent from DS1 until he has finished college but I would expect him to show some kind of appreciation for his free board - what about asking him to buy and prepare a meal for everyone one day a week? Sunday brunch or Friday night, whatever.
Both boys need to stop eating rubbish foods and I second other PPs suggestions about turning off wifi and no food in bedrooms. The boys need to start helping around the house - I would talk to them and ask them what they think they ought to be doing.
Finally could some of their issues be connected to your divorce?

he said it wasn't an option

I'd tell him that unless xyz changes, it would be one of his options. The others would be living with his Dad, a flat share or sleeping rough because his option to live with you would no longer be there.

I'm all for 'children' (of any age) being welcome in the family home, for ever & always, but come on, only if you're not being fucking obnoxious. I know I could move back to my Mum's anytime (DH, kids, cats whatever) but in equal measure I wouldn't treat it like the OP's kids do.

ChickenLegz. Some teenagers are bloody hard work, but at what point do you think it all went so horribly wrong with them both? You CANNOT live like this. The eldest needs to be told clearly to shape up or ship out. The youngest needs some hard rules & sanctions, he's still just young enough for that. Little sod needs telling.

Short term do you have a parent or friend (even your ex?) that could stay for a weekend so you and DH can go away withoutbthe fear of what your DC might do if left alone?

You’re not mean at all! And I have no idea why you are being accused of opting out of parenting. Some very stupid comments on this thread.

You & your partner need to be totally united in your approach (I expect you are) and v clear about boundaries.

I think the only consequence you can dish out is refusing to fund their selfishness so that the option of work becomes attractive to them. Heavens, my 14yo earns all her own spending £s, I’m sure your boys could too.

Easier said than done, I know. Little steps. Start with cutting back on paying for stuff and introducing a couple of non negotiable chores.

Good luck!

How have they got to the stage where they have so little respect for you? Did they have rules to follow before now? I agree with the others that you need to lay some firm ground rules and stick to them.

Think you are focussing on the wrong child. Ds2 should legally be in education or training if in UK , sooner or later he will be in trouble. Ds1is at least at uni. The loan money is to enable that (books, transport etc) while you support him. He could get a pt job for extras like phone, going out. Life with teens does mean little time as a couple, why would you expect otherwise.

I agree, why is DS1 in trouble for existing, when DS2 is smoking weed, not getting educated, breaking the law, associating with criminals and supporting the slave trade?

This thread makes me SO glad I have got daughters!

They are not perfect, but they have never displayed any of the horrors I am reading on this thread. And they both left home at 18 (went to uni, left at 21, and then moved in with mates or boyfriend.) We see them once a week or so, have lunch, visit each other etc. They both have successful, professional careers, and their own homes now, and can drive, and have a car, and go on hols with their boyfriend etc. (They are mid 20's now.) Isn't that what adults are meant to do?

I know a few people with adult children (a few as old as 24-26,) who are still at home, and have never had a job. I can't imagine what it must be like for the parents. I left home at 21, and many people of my generation left by their early 20's, (and had a job by the age of 16-17.)

And the award for the least helpful post goes to...
user1491678180

Hahahahaha at daughters not causing these issues

You seem to be lacking a logic gene, UserWhatever.