To secretly fill a Christmas Charity shoebox with as good as new toys?

[ferriswheel]

I've filled an authentic one already. But all things considered I could do a great job of 'nearly new' version.

Or is this very bad karma?

[Greenleaf54321]

people either choose to engage with the church, or chose not to, the church does not pretend not to be a church for the purposes of distributing shoe boxes, or evangelism, or anything else.

[Greenleaf54321]

evangelism happens, and that is part of the purpose of OCC. Christian work is both caring for the poor AND evangelism. As I said, if you are uncomfortable about that, then please do use other charities!

however, the evangelism only happens at the request of locals, and to support local evangelism, and in areas where there are already active, public churches.

There are distributions that are done as part of a church service, yes, where all the children who have been chosen to receive a shoe box are church attenders, etc.

There are distributions from other community centres, including mosques, etc, when they are NOT part of a christian service, and no evangelism occurs.

There is no requirement for anyone who is not Christian to support OC:, it is a Christian organisation.

[ghostyslovesheets]

a word of warning - be careful what you post about OCC - last time this debate happened myself and several over MN's were threatened with legal action for posting anti OCC stuff

[sashh]

There are distributions from other community centres, including mosques, etc, when they are NOT part of a christian service, and no evangelism occurs.

Then why don't they say that on either website? And what about the leaflets added to the box?

[Greenleaf54321]

And what about the leaflets added to the box? that only happens in Christian areas, at the request of the local church

[Greenleaf54321]

If OCC caused any offence where shoe boxes were distributed, they wouldn't be being invited back year after year, would they? They don't turn up unannounced and invade! They work by invitation of the locals only.

[MsPassepartout]

The DCs school and nursery normally support a toy appeal run through local radio stations - the toys go to children in need locally rather than abroad, and it's a secular charity.

I've always donated new toys. I have happily given my own DC second hand toys before, but if the toys from the appeal are intended as gifts to families who can't normally afford to buy new toys, then I think it's nicer for the children to receive a new toy as their gift.

[flowery]

"There is nothing Christian about homophobia or Islamophobia."

Indeed. Which is why it is sad when people who claim to be Christian decide to support a charity with those values.

[IncyWincyGrownUp]

For the OP, I think filling the box with as new things is fine. Or maybe mixnthe two sontheres a bit of both for each recipient.


As for OCC, it’s something I refuse to support and I refuse to allow my children to support. We look for other ways to share at Christmas.

As others have said, research is key, and if you know of somebody looking to support a shoebox charity maybe direct them toward the link upthread so they can make an informed decision.

[SoupDragon]

I will contact head office and ask for assurances that they will take action against any homophobia in their organisation.

Good luck with that. What do you think they are going to say??

[exexpat]

@greenleaf54321 "And what about the leaflets added to the box? that only happens in Christian areas, at the request of the local church"

Absolute bullshit. How do you explain this video, of Operation Christmas Child in Nepal, targeting Hindu children for conversion?

[LIZS]

Our local Age UK daycentre has done gift bags for the elderly in the past. I did write to school about OCC several years ago but they still choose to support it.

[specialsubject]

Supporting an organisation indicates agreement with it.

Face up to what you are funding.

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

So ,Schadenfreude, using your argument it doesn’t matter about the agenda of this organisation, as long as it makes the recipients happy then that’s ok?

As long as they don't push their agenda, or use it to proselytise - yes. The child gets a gift they would not have received - and these are children who have very little in their lives. Are you saying that because you disagree with someone's opinions, then they shouldn't be allowed to show generosity?

I have no objections whatsoever if the whoever distributes the gifts when they get to their destination, doesn't say where/ who they are from, though I would not want them to be attributed to a different group.

But I can't see why a (say)Muslim child should not receive a gift from a Christian organisation, without any strings attached. Perhaps one day that child, while remaining Muslim, will not allow him/herself to be swayed into a hate stance - maybe they will think "When I was 10 I was given food/ clothes/ toys by Christians - surely they aren't all bad?"

The gifts though should be unconditional - no having to attend Bibe classes or listen to evangelism or anything like that. Just a shoebox of stuff, plain and simple, given with love,

[peanut2017]

I had no idea and have done this in the past in Ireland. Can't remember through what organisation. Must check it out

[exexpat]

@schadenfreudepersonified "As long as they don't push their agenda, or use it to proselytise" - that is precisely what Operation Christmas Child does - see the Nepal video above, or look at their website: www.samaritans-purse.org.uk/what-we-do/the-greatest-journey/

[SchadenfreudePersonified]

Well the leaflets in the boxes for a start, then there are the presentations and prayers that need to be attended before you get your box. Then the children are 'invited' to bible study classes.

I knew nothing of this sashh and I think if true it is totally wrong - but to be honest, I would have thought it would cause more resentment against the Christian church then anything else.

At one time the Salvation Army was similar (don't know if they still are) in that they wouldn't feed people etc if they didn't attend a service. I ahem to admit it coloured my opinion of that Organisation.

[MillicentFawcett]

I don't support the Salvation Army either because of their homophobia

[RedToothBrush]

a word of warning - be careful what you post about OCC - last time this debate happened myself and several over MN's were threatened with legal action for posting anti OCC stuff

Why would I trust a charity which behaved aggressively and threatened MN users who were questioning their methods to not employ aggressive methods in other areas of their operation?

You can argue all day about their evangelical practises if you wish. The way they treated people and shut down debate here was disgusting in its own right. We saw it happen.

Any charity that uses methods like this, I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw the shoe box. I'd much rather choose another charity which was not involved in such controversy full stop and could manage and answer criticism without feeling the need to call in the lawyers.

It undermines any claim the organisation has that they have no local opposition. They silenced it on MN in a manner that was hostile to criticism to the point that they thought they could shut it down through intimidation rather than debate.

They used their money and power to attack those who couldn't match that.

I don't think people like they should be encouraged in countries where there is an even greater inequality of means to challenge behaviour that locals may not like.

[DayThree3]

I have knitted hats and toys for the shoe boxes and filled with new toys. There is normally a list of what can be included. I hope that the children who received have enjoyed. My boxes were sent with my love. I know there are some religious connections. I must have missed the requests for this year. I would rather send these than money that seems to disappear into a black hole of various charities

[PosiePootlePerkins]

Does anyone know if shoeboxappeal.org is also unacceptable? The leaflet says it is run by Blythswood Care 'Transforming lives through Christian care for body and soul'. Doesn't sound great?

[Greenleaf54321]

There are many hundreds of thousands of culturally Christian children in Nepal.

[PosiePootlePerkins]

Sorry should have said, that has come home from my son's CofE school. Also the school I work in does one run by the Rotary Club, any thoughts? I am one who has always filled the shoeboxes thinking I was doing a good thing....

[BitOfANameChange]

Greenleaf You posted There are many hundreds of thousands of culturally Christian children in Nepal.

According to the 2001 census, 80.62% percent of Nepalese were Hindu, 10.74% were Buddhist, 4.20% Muslim, 3.60% Kirant (an indigenous religion), 0.45% Christian, and 0.4% were classified as other groups such as Bön religion.

In 2016 the population of Nepal was declared as 28.98 million. 0.45% Christian (including adults) gives me a total of 130,410 so hardly the numbers you are claiming.

[Greenleaf54321]

The number of Christians in Nepal is unknown, but it is many times the figure you are quoting. It is one of the fastest growing churches in the world. Many Nepalese churches ask OCC for a one off visit with shoe boxes, or longer term support. There are many Nepalese Christian refugees in London too.

You can be born and raised in a Christian household, but you are not a Christian unless you make that decision for yourself. It is virtually impossible to estimate the number of Christian believers anywhere. You can be culturally Christian, and have no faith, or you can be culturally non-christian, and have very strong faith. there are hundreds of thousands of both groups in Nepal, but impossible to count accurately.