Cripes..son wants to study Philosophy !

[Boringoldmum]

Apologies in advance to any philosophers out there but ds17 has Aspergers and is in final year at school so applying to Uni's etc. Wants to do an Arts degree and is looking at a joint honours degree in Philosophy and either History or German. he really struggles with friends/peers etc but relates well to adults..the thing is he is really going to struggle finding a job I think afterwards as he will find it difficult to do a successful interview given his difficulties. But with something like Philosophy what on earth will he be able to apply for? Torn between encouraging him to change to more standard straightforward subjects or letting him follow his hearts desire and study Philosophy. What would people advise ....study what you love or maximise job prospects by choosing different subjects?

Or just let him study philosophy?

Also agree with those who say most employers don't really care what degree you do. There are very few degrees that lead to a specific job, medicine and vet science being two of the few. Even law doesn't guarantee you a job. Neither does engineering. Employers specify "having a degree" or "2:1 degree" because it implies an achieved level of education/skills which would be important in the job. Degrees don't just teach the subject, they teach a whole load of skills.

I did philosophy. I became a careers adviser and now a public sector manager. It's a great degree and I enjoyed it.

I'd be over the moon if any if mine choose philosophy.
I was kept away from what I liked because of the job prospect attitude. It did me no good.

Let him do what he loves. My asd brother was always pushed towards what would be better for him rather than who he was - not a happy outcome I am afraid.

Absolutely encourage him to choose his own course of study! First of all, it's his choice because he's the one doing the work. End of story. Secondly, your DH is thinking of university as some sort of long apprenticeship leading to a guaranteed job, which it is not. Most graduates these days do NOT step out of university and into a job in their field. The sole purpose of university, particularly an arts degree, is not to prepare you for one specific job, but to make you the kind of thinker who can adopt various points of view and adapt to different situations (thus making you a capable employee in a whole range of jobs). Philosophy, history and languages are all degrees that encourage critical and analytical thinking and reasoning, research skills, writing ability, and (especially in the case of languages) the ability to step outside of your comfort zone. These fields prepare people for all kinds of valued jobs and provide a person with the opportunity to become well-read and well-rounded in their skills. Your son is more likely to finish university, and to do so with good grades, if he studies something he is passionate about. And he is likely to get more out of those years and develop personally by meeting like-minded people in his courses--provided he isn't made to feel guilty about not studying engineering or whatever!

At 18 he’s entitled to not know what the hell he wants to do with life.

Philosophy can be an amazing degree, especially if it’s joint honours. Encourage him to follow his passion. University is tough enough without additional needs, and having the drive of a subject he loves will help him stay the course so much more than the prospect of a possible job.

My Aspie DS chose philosophy. He got through year one. By year 2 he he was so depressed we had bring him home. He went back to try year 2 again. By December we had to drive through snow to bring him home again.

Philosophy was too much for my poor aspie boy

he is really going to struggle finding a job I think afterwards as he will find it difficult to do a successful interview given his difficulties

So what have you and the school done so far about helping him with his interpersonal communication skills or even practicing interview techniques?

What would people advise ....study what you love or maximise job prospects by choosing different subjects?
What would be the point in him doing any degree and 'maximising' his 'job prospects' if you're convinced he will never successfully pass an interview - and thus hold down a job- anyway?

Sounds like you're being snobbish re the Philosophy subject and that's what the real issue is.

Dh did philosophy at a Russel group university. Well actually he originally signed up to do philosophy and then in the first few weeks changed to philosophy and politics. He went on to do a law conversion and now works at a well regarded city firm. It was absolutely not a negative thing at all. Lots of his course mates are now professionals in the city with a few that went on to do PGCE.

My undergrad (and later my masters and the bit of PhD I've managed to get through) is in Philosophy. It's an amazing degree but yes, done well it's profound and it doesn't work for everyone. When it clicks with you, it's the most amazing field of study.

I've always found it super employable - I'm now (late 20s) a director at a start up consultancy, and my peers are academics, consultants, teachers, special advisors in Parliament, in the big 4, journalists and artists - a real mix of high achievers. PPE is also an amazingly useful degree, as is anything with languages.

But - I'm an unashamed academic snob. A philosophy degree from a university with a low research rating wouldn't impress me, as a graduate employer, because it's a serious academic degree or it's a nonsense. Your DS needs to consider the institution as well as the course, but ultimately should follow his heart.

tigerdriverII

While I get your sentiment, as someone 20 years on from their degree, masters and PhD in a subject they loved (arts related) and utterly impoverished, I dearly wish I'd thrown one or two of my romantic ideals out of the window and firstly qualified in some "boring shit" that at least provided me with some semblance ol stability.

Believe me, being financially restricted in practically every choice I have to make for myself and my family does not make for a happy life.

Philosophy graduate from a Russell group university here - I joined the civil service fast stream. You'd be surprised how useful a degree in philosophy is for life in th public sector ;)

Nothing at all wrong with doing philosophy - esp. combined with modern language he'll come across as smart, studious, serious - all things plenty of graduate schemes look for.

DS(15) is very keen to do Philosophy, preferably at St Andrews . He won his year’s philosophy prize at school a year ago and absolutely lives and breathes philosophy. He would eventually like to be a lawyer. This changes about every once in a while but the Philosophy degree doesn’t waver.

We’re encouraging him. I’d far prefer that he study something he loves. He can do something more practical at postgrad level later if he wants.

DH has a philosophy degree. He entered a big 4 accountancy job then eventually ended up in the oil and gas business.

In my last job, which was a creative consultancy type business, philosophy graduates were highly prized and my experience working with them is that they were the sharpest people in the business.

Done right, the degree teaches you how to think/reason, which is hugely valuable in any problem solving role.

Thanks everyone...so encouraging to hear all your views,we will indeed I think encourage him to study his passion!!! .So grateful to you all for the overwhelmingly positive responses...!

My brother did philosophy and a foreign language. Last I heard, he was advising the government in the country where he now lives about Bitcoin.
He's self-employed so I don't think he's had to do a job interview for a few years now.
Best of luck to your ds.

The study of philosophy develops analytical thinking skills and shows that you can follow a line of argument/opinion to it's logical conclusion. So as well as any job that just asks for "a degree" it is particularly beneficial to any that require any sort of writing/analytical skills.

I did it as part of my OU degree and loved it - especially the moral philosophy parts which explored such topics as euthanasia, abortion and capital punishment - absolutely fascinating stuff which certainly had me questioning how and why I could hold the beliefs I did and could I justify them logically.

You should encrouage what he loves and is interested in.

You aren't "letting" him study it by the way. He is almost an adult. Do you "let" him go to the shop for a can of coke or "let" him have a late night when he wants? He's a grown up practically!!

BTW I know two people who did Philosophy. One is now a yr5 teacher in a v well known prep school and LOVES it, one is working in finance! Random. But they got a lot out of their degrees.

DH studied philosophy at Cambridge. He is very very bright and could realistically have applied (and got in) to study any one of his A level subjects but he chose to apply for philosophy because he found it interesting and he had no set career plans.
He has never regretted choosing philosophy and is now a company director in the energy industry.
I, on the other hand, chose a very vocational subject (law) for the career prospects, rather than the subject I loved (geography) and didn't really enjoy it. I didn't end up staying with law as a career and really wish I had chosen differently.
I would say let encourage your DS to do what he is interested in.

I have a philosophy degree from a well-regarded university. It's seen as a respectable degree for any of the professions that have a reputation for being a bit funny about stuff like that - law, finance etc.

also, I meant to add, another friend of mine from uni studied philosophy and is now working in the City, he has Aspergers, although quite mildly, and really enjoyed the logic problems, which are almost mathematical.

It always depresses me how many people on these threads don't seem to realise the MULTITUDE of opportunities there are to get trained for a particular career after you complete an undergraduate degree in a subject you actually enjoy. There are a ton of conversion courses and graduate trainee schemes. The most important thing is to get a good degree from a good place, in something you love for 3 years in order to be able to access the best possible range of these experiences afterwards.

A degree ought to be a wonderful opportunity for an in-depth exploration of a subject in which a young person is genuinely interested. Philosophy is absolutely amazing as a training subject for anything that requires analytical or ethical thinking. It is, however, an extremely difficult degree - the reading is of a calibre that would make most undergraduates in the arts and humanities wince. But it also forms a foundation for all of the theory in other arts and humanities, as well as the social sciences.

ladyformation - it's a shame you feel that way about universities, because there are really good departments outside the Russell Group - Kingston has CRMEP, for instance.

Disclaimer: I don't work in a philosophy department!