To move to London on 28k?

[TequilaLemonSalt]

I'm in my third year of uni. Just got through the first stage of the Civil Service Fast Track. Actually quite chuffed, as they write books on how to pass it, and I just did it on a whim after two glasses of wine

A bit presumptuous, but I'm starting to consider if I could manage it if I did get the job, and had to work in Westminster.

I have a 2 year old, and am a single parent. I currently live in the South East - Google maps says door to door commute is 2 hours.

My current rent is 1095 a month for a 2 bed terraced house. I got it because of a mutual acquaintance though, and I'm not even sure I could get a 2 bed in London on a 28k starting wage (?). I'm sure it's x3 annual income for most estate agents.

At the moment, my annual income - due to my part time salary, tax credits and student loan - is pretty high. Loads higher than 28k. Probably too high, due to student loans not getting included in benefit calculations, but I'm doing my best to make sure I pay handsomely into the system for the rest of my life, so I'd rather not get flamed. Plus I work my fucking arse off from 6am - 10pm every single day, either working, child rearing or studying.

I'll do the entitledto calculations etc., but I just wanted to see if anybody thought this was doable? Or even that I'd be accepted for a tenancy? If I'm accepted for permanent employment for the CS, will this help? I'm not sure how it would work staying here and commuting. 7-7 every day is very long with a 2 year old with an unstable father. But people do it, I guess. But it wouldn't be for a short amount of time. I'd feel sad. I'm not sure that's best.

I know I'm getting ahead of myself. But I'm really excited - I've cared for different groups from 2 year olds, to the mentally ill, to people who have LD, to the elderly; all my life, and I'm so excited to have the chance to work academically to really make a difference on a national scale. But if I can't make the £ work, I can't make it work

Opinions gratefully received!

I would think more when you have actually done the fast stream assessment centre. The online tests are just basic screening.

I think you will find some jobs in the fast stream difficult with children, certainly some private office or policy jobs as long hours can be a part of it.

@TequilaLemonSalt
Not at all! I read your post late and it looked like a 'DM' style so I thought you'd posted it here when you meant to send it to someone specific.

Good luck to you - its brilliant to read about someone so excited about a career opportunity, I wish you well

Aren’t you supposed to declare your student loan as income though to hmrc?

Civil service jobs have great career progression, great flexitime generally, pensions, great redundancy pay should you choose that down the line... i would find a way, even if it means some kind of house sharing (I've often thought single mums living together in a house would be the best scenario generally but unsure whether that happens often)

@wannabestressfree, loans are debt and not income.

@JoJoSM2 when I was at uni you had to declare your student loan and any help you got to hmrc. I would hate op to get so far and then be cautioned for not declaring.

@wannabestressfree I'm sorry. I didn't realise that HMRC were interested in loans.

‘Probably too high- they haven’t taken into account her student loan’
As far as I am aware you have to declare any income regardless of where it has come from. I might be wrong though.

Yes, it's absolutely doable and it would be a terrible shame to give up such a great opportunity (if you get it it) due to short term costs. I would have a look at Walthamstow- on the speedy Victoria line so you can get into Victoria extremely quickly, not too expensive, lots of rental properties, nice villagey feel (if you pick the right part).

You're right that the civil service is more positive than most employers about flexible working etc, which is hugely important if you have a child. Also nb that your salary will increase substantially as you progress.

I declared everything. They disregard either the grant or the loan, can't remember which. Either ways, the figures I've posted from entitledto are on a 27k wage without student loans, and it's still very high. So I haven't scammed or anything 🤷🏽‍♀️

Will look into the areas mentioned. God, I so hope I get it. I said to my dissertation supervisor today in my first meeting that I'm hoping to get published. He said that's very ambitious. But I say, reach for the stars

Sorry I shouldn’t have doubted you I apologise. I have been in that position.

Exfast-streamer here.

As far as I remember there may be a DWP office in Brighton - I remember DWP friends griping because Londoners hate being posted there!

The important thing you need to know about the civil service is that once you're in it's much easier to transfer to other parts of it. I left the fast stream for personal reasons (family stuff which meant a fast track graduate scheme was really not the right place for me at the time.) But once you've got a civil service email account you can see all the internal jobs that aren't available if you're applying externally, so if fast stream doesn't suit you you have choices.

What's your alternative plan, OP?

I'm just going to apply for tons of grad schemes and hope I get onto one of them. Aldi offers a starting salary of 44k and a fully expensed Audi A4

It's not what I want to do but. I could maybe do my law GDL part time in the evenings. All I want is to make shit loads of money (which in my life means making enough to buy a home and go on holiday every now and then) and make a difference to people's life. Social research at the civil service seems to tick both boxes.

If I get a different job, hopefully I can tick the first box with whatever scheme I get on and the latter can be ticked when I have the opportunity. But most of all I'm trying to provide for my little DD and give us a secure home to live in. I've finally learnt I need to put that before saving the entire world

Thank you @swg1. In the perfect scenario I'd stay at home, so fingers crossed.

And @wannabestressfree, no worries. I'm kind of shocked at how much I'm entitled to. But I have ridiculously high bills, well over 2k a month, I don't have much spare to play with, and I work my arse off 16 hours a day every day. So I'm hardly one of those people the DM love to bitch about!

If it helps, my DD does 33 hours now, and when it was 15 funded, childcare bill was £549, with 30 hours it's £279.
I would say factor in potentially higher costs though, as you may need longer hours/a cm to do pick up/drop off if you have a long commute (our nursery is 7.30 - 6, I work 8.30-4.30 but DH does drop off, I go in before they leave in order to get back for pick up (commute door to door is 1 hr 10 and in Zone 3).

Congrats! You sound so excited!

Also if you'd consider other civil service roles, keep an eye on the civilservicejobs site. You may find a post local to you, and once in there are internal schemes for people wanting fast promotion.

Do be careful with grad schemes - I found when looking at them more deeply that a lot of them are very focused on "let's send the new graduate on three month stints around the country". I think the Aldi and Lidl ones particularly are renowned for very long hours.

I'm a Westminster based civil servant living in Brighton. Most central civil service locations are based walking distance from Victoria. You may find you can get posted to Croydon, for example though which will save time and money. The civil service is big on flexible working - condensing hours, working from home etc. I would say though that as far as I know the fast stream doesn't guarantee promotions - just fast tracks you through getting relevant experience

Yep no automatic promotion these days. In my old department there were plenty of heo "d" grades who had failed the g7 board and were in a bit of a limbo. Also still a hard enough jump from g7 to scs jobs.

Loads of graduates start in London on that salary - no childcare costs but no benefits either. I tend to think if thousands and thousands of people manage then so can I.

It might help to lower your housing expectations though - we were nearly all in flatshares at that point, with the odd one renting studio flats. Pain now for gain later, when your child is old enough to want their own room. Further out is doable but commuting time could be an issue, as well as the cost, especially if you go with nursery which tends to be more restricted on hours than childminders. Frequency of transport is at least as important as travel time - try to get at least 3 trains an hour. Consider buses too, they're cheaper than the tube and often quite frequent. A lot of employers offer loan schemes to help you spread the cost of your annual season ticket.

My best pick of flat was the smallest one we saw, very close to a mainline station with very frequent trains. Shops and a park on the doorstep. We never missed the extra space - quality over quantity. Still cost me several £k a year in season ticket mind.

That's interesting about the promotions. It's pretty explicit online that after four years you'll be earning 45-55k. Is this not true?

I'll definitely consider moving into a 1 bed if needs be. I would feel like I'm doing a disservice to my daughter though. And I know my family would think that too. But honestly, if all the well paid grad jobs are in London, what can I do?

My mum thinks I'm so clever that I'll walk into a ridiculously paid job as a lawyer, as that's what she's always thought I'll be best at, and have money to pay for a 'nanny, housekeeper, cleaner etc' straight off the bat.

She doesn't understand that the start up wage is low, I won't be qualified for 4 years, and even if I manage to get a scholarship to pay my entire GDL (which is rare) it's not going to pay my living costs. And working 23 hours a week in a minimum Wage job isn't going to pay it either. My rent and nursery fees (with a 15 hour discount) are nearly 2k on their own.

She wasn't chuffed at all with the fast stream thing. Because she feels like I just need to put all my energy into becoming a lawyer. But it doesn't work like that. I know she thinks I'd be great at it (because I'm so manipulative apparently ), but also she's desperate for me to be able to support her and my dad in their old age.

Which I'll happily do, if I'm able to. But working a min wage whilst doing a masters part time online isn't a realistic way to go about things.

I don't think that is guaranteed, but it's likely. Most of the fast streamers I know have gone into grade 7 roles.

I think you have to give your mum the nod and smile treatment. And perhaps point out that it would be very unwise of them to rely on your financial support in their old age anyway; anything could happen.

As far as I know (and someone with fast stream experience may know different) you would still have to apply for grade 7 posts (which have the starting salary range you mention depending on department) through internal recruitment alongside other civil servants. So as a fast streamer you would hope you have the potential to succeed at that stage, but can't guarantee it

I'm pretty sure that as a Fast Streamer you move departments every 6-9 months though. If you are trying to hit up all of the London ones then that wouldn't be much disruption, but I don't know that you would be able to do your whole fast stream at e.g. The Brighton DWP office. Can anyone advise? It's a long time since I left Whitehall.

Yeah, I don't think you'd be able to do the whole thing in one office/role.

I think the fast streamers now move every 6 months for 3 years, then do one job for a year and either apply for jobs on promotion or go into a general role at the same level. Usually the contract requires UK wide mobility, but I imagine for parents it will be possible to do jobs in London/Croydon (Home Office).

There have been changes to the pay system and there is now limited pay progression within a grade. Eg if you’re promoted to a role paying £45k you could be on something near that salary for many years.

The civil service is an excellent and “family friendly” employer IME, relative to others, but many people work long hours and IMO those who do get the best work, performance ratings and promotions. I don’t personally know any single parents at G7.

Law is renowned for long hours and competitiveness, and for being bad for mothers. The mothers I know who were successful lawyers before DC all left or were made redundant.

I know several people who did tbe retail graduate schemes: long hours and UK wide mobility required.