To ask you to explain to me why there are not two sides to domestic abuse?

[ferriswheel]

I am divorcing my narc stbxh for mental, emotional and financial cruelty.

I absolutely know he behaved very badly towards me. But of course at times I shouted and rowed too. I didn't know at the time his bad behavior was actual abuse and I was striving to sort out his selfish ways and stand up for myself.

I also know that at least a couple of friends and relatives go by the mantra that there are '2 sides to every story' which offends and distresses me greatly.

If he'd battered me no one would hold me accountable. Why am I not accountable? I don't understand.

This feels like it's veering dangerously close to making excuses for abusive men. There is no excuse for emotional or physical abuse. Being "provoked" by a woman is not an excuse.

The main reason abusive relationships continue is that the abuser has systematically destroyed their victim's self esteem. The victim loses sight of what a healthy relationship looks like and doesn't have the confidence to leave.

My solicitor has this argument in court yesterday with my ex. I am the victim, I shouted and pushed him off me when he was abusing me but that doesn't make us equal or the same.

Thank you and I know you mean well but I have got my inner strength and I know he is an abuser. I also know, psychologically, that in my case (this is not projecting into anybody else's experience, each case is different) it wasn't black and white. I'm not making excuses for an abuser but I will take responsibility for my own part. Particularly as I chose to have children with this man which has impacted on their lives too. I'm accountable for that decision.

Wonderful insightful post Gertrude. I think your story is more common than we realise. I recall Erin Pizzey, an early pioneer of refuges, saying that an early survey of victims stories uncovered the fact that the mahority claimed to be in relationships where both partners were abusive. I think this is often swept u der the carpet. Of course many victims, both men and women are the unfortunate victims of abusers with no provocation.

I remember when my DSis’s first marriage broke up, she was revealing things that she’d kept hidden while they were together. Her ex had been violent towards her and abusive in other ways too. But at first she kept justifying him and wouldn’t let us say a word against him. Now, happily married to her second DH, she understands what he did to her and no longer attempts to defend him.

You will get to that place. Abusers mess with your head so you believe their version of events. Of course there are 2 sides - the abuser’s and the victim’s and you really mustn’t believe his version of reality, it’s completely false, even if his family and friends have bought it.

I empathise with your confusion and difficulty in articulating the abuse.

This probably sounds terrible to those not having been through it, but I was actually kind of glad that my dearest darling husband (heavy sarcasm there!) hit me in the end.

It clarified my mind perfectly, after the concussion wore off of course (ok, I'll hold back the gallows humour now!).

But hideously had jokes aside, i was so mired in the abuse I couldn't see what was going on or how to understand any of it. I just knew it was awful ... I believed his blame and actually thought I was the bad one. I thought I was 'mental' and 'had an anger problem'. I even thought I was the abusive one.

He really did a number on me. Just like yours did.

Mumsnet helped alot. And the thump to the neck. I knew what to do about such outright physical abuse. And I knew in my hearts of hearts that I couldnt have caused him to do that. Looking back, there was other physical abuse, but I was so lost and reality so confused, I couldn't see it for what it was.

It's just unutterably sad that it took that to make me realise that not only should I get out, that I could get out without anyone blaming me for it all.

The thing is, i was angry and mean in arguments. I wasn't nice to be around, for stbxh at least. But I've now realised that it's perfectly normal and acceptable to have negative reactions to negative stuff happening. That was actually the most healthy thing I was doing actually! And that probably goes for you too?!

What wasn't healthy was staying and believing I deserved it and just needed to try harder and it would all be fine... and that's what I need to work on still, boundaries and knowing it's ok to walk away.

I hope you can find your way straight to that same end point, it sounds like you're really there already

People really don't understand this type of abuse.

There is an expression, there is no reality, only perception. The problem is that some people’s perception is incredibly clouded with their biased opinions, undiagnosed personality disorders and/or mental illnesses etc.

When you come across narcissists, they are crazy making and they do make you doubt yourself so completely. My mother, brother and sil had me and even my dh fooled for many years that I was the problem. It’s only through a lot of counselling and therapy that I have finally been able to see that they systematically set me up for failure. There is no way for me to win. Say for example I have choice a or b. I do a, they react one way, I do b, they react another way. Always to my detriment. But they can only do this if I let them.

I suspect as with most narcissists, it was a slow process,which crept up on you totally by stealth.

Quite possibly, he backed you into a corner so that everything you did was setting you up to lose and so you exploded in anger or were constantly in tears. Thus becoming the crazy wife. That then became his reality. He was married to a crazy woman so he needed to keep you under control, perhaps even apologise for you and be the man, who rescues his wife and stands by her despite her unreasonable behaviour. What a knight in shining armour. And then maybe he attributed some of his behaviours, beliefs and opinions, which he dislikes and rejects to you. Generally speaking, narcissists don’t see who they truly are, as Maryz explained.

I meant to add, to the outside world, if this were the scenario, your stbx will have been seen as the strong one, standing by an unreasonable wife. And that will have been his side of the story as witnessed by outsiders not privy to the inner workings of your marriage.

I agree, well explained Littletdragon. An abuser twists the truth over time in such a complicated dance of control and mind games, it's understandable how a victim feels they are to blame in some way.

Throw in guilt and low confidence and it's easy to see how the victim's perspective becomes skewed, and how onlookers would also misinterpret the situation.

It must be so distressing for an abused partner to not feel believed by those close to them.

Abusers are good at what they do - they know exactly what buttons to press to provoke a reaction from their victim.

When you have the misfortune of crossing paths with a sociopath, you will never be the same again - they take psychological abuse/mind games to a whole new level!

Absolutely LittleDragon, well said.

My perceptions were so messed up having lived with someone manipulating me 24/7. It was the cognitive dissonance that got me so topsy turvey ... when you know something's not right and yet you also believe the opposite because the person who's words create the whole world says so. It's an impossible thing to live with those opposites, and I think maybe that's what you're battling / have been battling.

It's a journey, to have split up with this person means you've gone a great way on this journey already. But it's hard to separate off you from the person who's been forcing his reality onto you for so long.

It will take a while to regain your own reality, and get back that fundamental sense of believing yourself, your memories, your mind, your senses and your gut... what you know to be the truth. And every so often you'll come up against this brick wall, of him projecting his skewed lies and fantasies of what happened. Maybe through him directly, or through mutual friends and family who prefer the idea of 'blame of both sides' than the more ugly reality of abuse...

Luckily if you stick to your own self, have confidence in you, these moments will get easier to deal with.

Don't get sucked into anyone else's perceptions of events. Your own experiences are yours to name and as you were living it, likely to be much more accurate than random hearsay and biased second hand snapshots.

I was abused as a child, I dealt with it by living a fantasy life in my head, where I would create a whole different life for myself. Even though I was present in the chaos that was all around me, I was able to dim the focus to a degree.
This has become my coping mechanism. It has helped me cope throughout life with a lot of situations. It has also been a problem.
Because I spiralled in my late teens, had a baby, and continued to fall right though my 20's until the marriage to my child's father crashed and burned out. He was the one that provided me with stability, I thought he loved me, but he was controlling and unable to handle me at my worst. He responded by literally locking me in the house and stopping me from using the phone. Eventually he left and moved overseas.
I then started drinking and got heavily into all sorts of drugs, while my son spent time with his grandparents. I couldn't see a way out. I walked away from relationships with decent non-abusive men, or they walked away from me, obviously recognising that they couldn't and shouldn't try to rescue me.
I didn't know how to help myself, so got involved with a man who controlled me again. Yes, I married him. He was abusive, worst than my first husband.
I am only now seeing this pattern in my life. It has been a long road.
But I can tell you that abusive men seek out women who can not tell the difference between abuse, control and love.
I am now with someone who doesn't cause drama, and doesn't make decisions for me. If I get drunk, he doesn't take away the wine, but waits for me to stop myself. He doesn't try to get me so drunk that I lost all control, he doesn't berate me for it the next day, he doesn't try to embarrass or humiliate me into silence. I'm getting better at relationships now.

This has really helped. Thank you everyone.

I'm glad

Feel free to vent or whatever on here, we'll listen and support wheee we can. I leaned on mumsnet posters hard in those first few months :)