To not understand how low income people become high earners?

[KissesAX]

Okay so hear me out, I'm not bashing anyone who earns a lot of money. Nor am I saying you didn't get there through hard work. But here's my story:

Was severely depressed in sixth form causing me to drop out and do an apprenticeship instead of A levels. Years on, I'm 21 and I'm unemployed. The only jobs I can apply for are entry level jobs but even these such as retail jobs all prefer people with retail experience, same with waiting and cleaning jobs. Plus they're all £7.50 ph minimum wage.

I can't go to uni as I wouldn't be able to afford it. My parents don't fund me and I have too many bills to pay that are behind from being unemployed as it is.

So here's my question. How on earth do people who are poor like myself ever get to a high paying job because I can't even seem to get an entry level job. I feel so defeated at so young but I can not find work.

DSis did it by starting as a barmaid in a pub, then moving to waitressing & bar work at a Beefeater. She worked very hard (7 days a week at busy times) and was recommended by her Manager for the Management Trainee scheme. Within 2 years she was Manager of her own branch & then became Area Manager before moving to the HO and becoming a Training Manager for them - so travelling out to branches & training other Managers how to manage (IYSWIM).

From this she was able to apply for, and get, a similar training role in a different industry.

She worked hard, very hard (and still does), and it helps that she is a very confident and outgoing person.

The only other pathway I know is in care. You WILL be offered a care job - demand way exceeds supply of applicants. Work hard, prove yourself to be good at the job & take every training opportunity offered (CQC, NVQ’s etc). Eventually you will be able to move into a Care Co-Ordinator & then Management role. Pay isn’t necessarily all that impressive - but certainly more than minimum wage for those in Management.

I worked as a travel agent earning £12k a year for a six day week, I worked my arse off to get into IT training, really long days with a lot of travel then got into IT sales.

A few years ago I was in your position. I went from earning £2.60 an hour (apprentice) to £36k p/a in 3 years, while having a baby in between with no qualifications. Work hard, push hard and keep going. I applied for a shitty job in a company I could progress in, they saw my desire to succeed and let me do it.

Not aiming this at you OP but how these threads tend to go is that posters tend to make suggestions or provide anecdotes about how they did it and the response is ‘I can’t do this because of x,y,z’

Generally people earn a lot of money through hard work, sacrifice and determination. It doesn’t matter where you start out.

Social Mobility has ground to a shuddering halt in the last two decades.

Anybody telling you wonderful stories of rags to riches from the 60's 70's and 80's is irrelevant

because since then the rich have well and truly pulled up the drawbridge behind themselves.

The Gini coefficient of equality in the UK is nearly where it was in Edwardian times.
But the legislators do not care as they are all rich.

How did you do at languages in school? The speaking bit - the grammar is not as important. Could look for an au pairing job where there are some language lessons involved, stay in the other country as long as you can, do language tandems with the locals (teaching one another your languages for free). Or offer English conversation in the evening for some extra cash - you can speak native English, that is a sought-after skill abroad. Then maybe look out for a job on a cruise ship or in the Alps where they pay pretty well because few people want to stay away from home that long. More language learning opportunities. More skills...

You either make money through self employment, or have a degree, ime.

Generally people earn a lot of money through hard work, sacrifice and determination. It doesn’t matter where you start out.

This ^ - exactly how I did it. I am from a low income family from an area where going to university definitely wasn't the norm. Good results didn't come easy to me. I worked hard got myself into Uni, got a graduate position with a salary of 12k (circa £6/hr). I have worked my ass off for the past 9 years, have sacrificed my social life on many occasions and have been so determined to "climb the ladder". I have just been promoted to senior manager with a salary of 50k - at 31 years old I never thought it would have been possible. I feel very very lucky but I have also worked very hard to get where I am.

Another one who would suggest accountancy or NHS admin. My DH started as a temp 10 years ago and now earns quite well and could earn more if he had gone for the CiMA or ACCA qualifications his work offer for those promising accounts administrators. I worked in a GP surgery as a receptionist for 6 months and already the opportunities for study / progressiom were good. My best mate started low down in the records dept of a hospital (although she has a degree) and now earns c. £40k in the public sector.

Working your way up.
When I met my now husband he was earning £18k and I was earning £16k. He now earns between £90-£95k depending how many days he works and in my last job (before redundancy) I was earning about £30k (not huge, but in Scotland it's above average).

You can do it, if you really want to.
I left school at 16, my parents moved abroad and I had to get a job sharpish as I had a flat and bills to pay for. I applied for EVERYTHING. The only experience I had was working as a Saturday girl in a charity shop which I continued to do until I got a full time job (earning £4ph).
It took a while, I was ignored or rejected for almost everything and when I did get an interview I had to meet with this horrible creep of a guy who asked me if I was planning on getting pregnant any time soon as part of the interview process. I had to do a numbers based test and he told he I'd done better than anyone else they'd seen but in the end they wouldn't hire a 16 year old...
So I kept trying and eventually I was offered 2 jobs at the same time and I had to pick - one was making tea in a solicitors firm for about £11k and the other was admin for a bank making about £12k.
I picked the bank, worked my way up, got a permanent job, to management level etc. 7 years in I decided that I needed a professional qualification so I applied to work in Finance and I spent 3 years studying accountancy in the evenings after my DS had gone to bed. Some days I fell asleep in work I was so tired.
But I became a chartered accountant. I currently earn £35k a year and I'm lining up for my next job earning around £45k a year, but I'm currently stuck in a bit of a rut with that as there are no opportunities where I am and I'm tied into this company for a certain number of years after they paid for my qualification.
I'll keep going though, keep trying, and if I don't get what I want here when my time is up I'll go to a competitor.
Persistence and resilience is key to getting what you want!

Working your way up, contacts and a bit of luck.

When I met my now husband he was earning £18k and I was earning £16k. He now earns between £90-£95k depending how many days he works and in my last job (before redundancy) I was earning about £30k (not huge, but in Scotland it's above average).

Social Mobility has ground to a shuddering halt in the last two decades

Anybody telling you wonderful stories of rags to riches from the 60's 70's and 80's is irrelevant

because since then the rich have well and truly pulled up the drawbridge behind themselves

The Gini coefficient of equality in the UK is nearly where it was in Edwardian times
But the legislators do not care as they are all rich

OP, don't let talk like this get you down

My DH did have a degree but he started as a part time shop assistant after he graduated, he worked his way to manager, studied part time for a business degree, moved companies, kept working very hard and is now a senior executive . He firmly believes that working your way through the ranks is really helpful as it means you understand the challenges that get in the way at each level and you can talk to anyone. As far as I can see bloody hard work and lots of drive is how you do it, he would have been 21 when he got his first retail part time job with no experience in the run up to Xmas, you can do this. Also just wanted to add that we know several people who have got a really good start at Macdonalds so don't dismiss any company.

You are 21. you have SO much time to do whatever you want.
Walk before you can run. Its tempting to think that if you can't have i all now then why bother at all....

Don't do that. In 2-3 years you will likely look back at this time of your life and wonder why you were so worried.

Don't be afraid to fail, but never stop trying.

Take a job at Minimum wage. Gain Experience, Increase your responsibilities gradually and your wages will go up. start saving. keep going. pay for a course with the money you have saved and maybe work at the same time. Or maybe get some qualifications through your workplace. don't expect to be successful all at once. These things take time. Perseverance is key.

Think about what your passions are, what you're good at-Look for a company and research it online-do they have opportunities for progression?

I'm back at college now at 32, there are people on my course who are well over 40. It is NEVER too late to learn or do something different and I'm saying that as someone with a good ten years on you.

Try not to focus on what everyone around you is doing, focus on your long term goals and take the steps, however small to get there. don't measure your success by other peoples rulers xx

I think unlimited makes a good point and it may be that your thinking is holding you back a bit. At this point in time, I don't think you need to be thinking "how can I make a great career for myself?" I think you should be thinking "what is my first step?"

The suggestion to attempt uni (if you decide that is the right thing for you) as a mature student, maybe after an access course, seem sensible to me. But first you want more confidence, more experience of life, and that will come from work.

If you have only recently emerged from MH problems severe enough to interfere with your studies, and have debts, I would ignore all advice about setting up your own company: doesn't sound like you are in the right place for that at the moment. Nor am I so sure about the RAF advice- have a feeling the army look quite carefully at medical history.

I'd try to get work for now, any kind of work. Much easier to apply for a job from a job. Send in applications to any kind of work: retail, catering, whatever you can think of. Masses of applications. Accept that you are still very young and that entry level may be what you have to do. For now.

Then once you are in that job, think about the skills you are accumulating, think about what you are learning about yourself and your strengths. Think about whether your type of work, by then, is something you might want to develop (e.g. become a manager) or whether it helps you to focus on different things you could do.

21 is so young. My own dd is pretty well the same age as you: she struggled with depression in Sixth Form but is now doing a Foundation course and hoping to get into a BA course next year. There will be aspects of it she will struggle with due to physical disability, but she will have to be inventive and work round that.

Sometimes her anxiety has the same effect on her as it seems to have on you and she gets very despondent, but she is getting better and better at recognising when it is depression speaking, and accepting that you can get to the same place by more than one route.

You think about today, and what you might like to do and start at entry level like most of us do. You have GCSE's presumably? Want to work in a bank? Start at the bottom as a clerk. Want to work in tv? Get a job as a runner. Want to work in a charity? Volunteer. You get the picture. Basically you start working and take the minimum wage so that you aren't unemployed and things will start happening.
I'm tripping over millennials at work who want everything yesterday and complain constantly about everything - the ones who get on with it are the ones who'll get ahead. If you're fit and able and relatively bright you shouldn't be unemployed.

I'm not a high earner by any stretch but relatively earn more than minimum wage. I started in an office at 18 with GCSE's and rubbish A-Level grades. I was the office support. I've worked my way up to another role when they needed staff and have then moved companies etc. I'm earning mid 30s now in my early thirties, so doing okay.

I've also got no student loan debt and have always earned money.

I work alongside others who have joined as graduates and earn the same salary.

There's more than one way to achieve the same goal... uni and graduate roles aren't the only way

Go online - look at all the under 25 apprenticeships in your area and sign up for alerts for any new ones that become available. If you want a retail job then volunteer in a charity shop - get those customer facing skills to write about on a job application and a reference. If something else interests you see if there are volunteering opportunities anywhere near you in that field - you can still get JSA if you volunteer as long as you still look for work for the required number of hours.

What free courses or sudsdised courses are available at the local college for those on JSA ? My DD did an admin/IT course that improved her excel and databse skills and did some volunteering in the office at a local charity - it got her interviews after applying for hundreds of jobs (like you) with no responses. She decided to go to Uni last year and is happy there - you get loans for maintenance and she gets a bursary from the uni for being on a low income (check this extra source of income out) you can also work part time to supplement your income - most people do this now. You don't pay back any money until you earn over a certain amount (it may be 25k now but my eldest repays on over £21k. You pay 9% on the amount OVER the £21k - so if you earn 22K you pay a 9% repayment on 1k (£90).It is taken off at source by the wages office and appears as a deduction along with tax and NICS on your wage slip. You borrow the fees (paid direct to the uni) and up to 8k (or 11k in London) a year to live on/pay rent.

I used to teach on Access and foundation courses (if you don't have the traditional grades or skills/confidence for uni) they are great for building confidence to move onto a degree - usually a fantastic mix of people - all ages , from all over the place - really great vibe - my favourite classes. Many people went on later to do Phd's, be top execs, managers, own business etc.

Don't loose heart.

I must say, I hate when people say if you want it you’ll do it. Or if you want it hard enough, and work hard enough, it’ll happen. There are loads of low earners who are working their asses off, and they cannot move past their minimum wage jobs. They will be working those jobs for the rest of their lives, not because they’re not hard workers, but because there aren’t the same opportunities available to them to move up as there were in the past.

These people aren’t just moving up to their next big position, that position doesn’t exist because of the lack of upward movement in society. The statistics on upward mobility and inequality isn’t just negative talk, its real. The economic statistics on the state of support for young people doesn’t lie, its real. It isn’t just her attitude, its reality. Let’s not pretend.

Young people today are less likely to own a house, because of high property values, have less opportunities available to them due to cuts in social services, and are being saddled with debt if they go into further or higher education.

Telling stories about how in the 90s you worked your way up from sweeping floors is not helpful given the situation now. It’s very different to the situation 20-30 years ago. Telling her if she wants it, then she’ll get it is not helpful because its not true. Realistically, the OP needs to see a counsellor at perhaps a local College that can help her with her options. I second Open University, as it is free for those who are unemployed or on benefits. It should start to open some doors for her. Volunteering, if you can afford it, can help, because you can put it on your CV.

The OP hasn’t said where she lives, but I imagine if she’s in an area that is deprived or depressed, this would be increasingly harder. Even doing this in central London or Birmingham would be difficult. Lets not downplay the obstacle. The valid and proven research on the poverty cycle isn’t negative talk either. It’s unbelievably difficult to break that cycle, but the OP has options that I’ve mentioned above.

I think it is VERY difficult now.

My dad got a full grant to go to medical school as a mature student, prior to that he was working in a factory after leaving school at 15 (he did A and O levels at night school whilst working in the factory and with a wife and child).

Couldn't do that now.

I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling and I know it must feel like a constant battle but you can get to where you want to be, slowly but surely. I have only basic GSCE's and no higher qualifications as I had to drop out of 6th forms and college both times I attempted it due to personal circumstances. I've been through homelessness (3 times), living in hostels, being on JSA, having nothing and with no hope in the world. I am now in a modest little council flat with my partner, our wonderful little boy and a couple of animals. I am studying for a degree and am due to start a job as a care assistant (something I thought I could NEVER do due to lack of skill/experience). It's not a high-flier megabucks life but it's much, much further and better than where I've been or come from.
Firstly, just people advertise a job saying that prefer experience does not mean you won't get the job. Apply anyway and you will be surprised, if you can prove you're eager to work and to learn they may still snap you up.
Look at the Open University. You can get it funded with student loans which you will not have to pay back until you earn over £21,000 a year and even then it's a small amount. Their advisers are incredibly helpful and super helpful if you have any questions and/or need any help choosing study or getting started. It's worth giving them a call. You can study part-time along side a job, so even if that job is not so fancy you'll know you're working towards something so much better.
Don't ever feel defeated, you are young and have a lot of time to be getting where you want to be. Sorry for the essay but something in what you're saying reminded me of a younger me! Feel free to message me if you would like anymore advice...

This is what I have been trying to ask my husband whenever he blames himself not working hard enough. I told him he is working hard as it is. It is competition out there (although I do think in some cases, people do cheat/lie/abuse to get to the very top)

If you are clever, in good health (physical and mental) with no dependents... but a low earner for some reason - you can do it if you get some good advice.

Very hard otherwise.

I also think its easier now if you know someone, or your parents own a business they can help you get into when you turn 18. They can train you to do a trade without you needing to pay for it. It’s just hard for young people today, I’m a researcher in economics and inequality. It’s pretty brutal out there for them. It’s brutal for anyone who is low earning.