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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to not do something that's not in my contract?

72 replies

Joolsy · 03/10/2017 16:20

I work in support at a college and a SN student started recently. He needs help in using the toilet. It transpires that anything to do with toiletting is not in our contract. Currently our contracts are under review, with a possibly pay increase for staff who would be undertaking this. AIBU to refuse to do this until I can see it in black and white? I have done it a couple of times because there was noone else available but am angry to have been put in the position where I felt I couldn't say no and the poor student was bursting for the loo

OP posts:
araiwa · 03/10/2017 16:25

Youre just gonna sit there and watch the kid piss his pants or whatever ?

I fired the last person who tried to use the 'not in my contract' line

MrsExpo · 03/10/2017 16:26

Possibly: your duties should be defined in your contract/job description and if this isn't in there, then you're within your rights to say no.I think this hinges on what you mean by "help". Is it simply escorting the student to the toilets and waiting outside while they do what they need to do - which is one thing. If you're expected to actually go into the toilet with him to provide physical assistance of some sort, then I can see why you might think that to be outside the remit of your role. You clearly need clarification from your employer.

TheSnowFairy · 03/10/2017 16:29

I would be doing it, especially if contracts / pay are under review.

I work in support in education too and we would get nowhere if no-one did anything unless specified in their contract.

existentialmoment · 03/10/2017 16:29

I fired the last person who tried to use the 'not in my contract' line

That could have gone very badly for you.

Expecting people to do toileting who are not contracted or trained to do so is not ok, and certainly not on the basis that no-one else will do it. Would you wipe peoples arses in your job, out of the blue and without it forming part of your work?

Bluntness100 · 03/10/2017 16:29

What are you saying? You will happily do it if you’re paid extra but not otherwise? So it’s not you have a issue with doing it, simply you want paying???

araiwa · 03/10/2017 16:31

Nah- gross misconduct . Was on safe ground

Original poster
Joolsy · 03/10/2017 16:31

Mrs Expo - it's the second part of your paragraph!

"I fired the last person who tried to use the 'not in my contract' line" - how you got away with that I'll never know.....

OP posts:
CockacidalManiac · 03/10/2017 16:32

I fired the last person who tried to use the 'not in my contract' line

Well, aren’t you the hardass.

Original poster
Joolsy · 03/10/2017 16:32

No I don't want paying. No amount of money would be enough for the amount of extra responsibility I'd be taking on

OP posts:
nightshade · 03/10/2017 16:33

Lots of things people do in work that aren't technically in their contract....if you refuse does he then ad the previous poster says have to piss himself?...hardly ideal..

I would however be taking note of how often you assist and be pushing forward for a change in your contract as a result.

araiwa · 03/10/2017 16:33

Gross misconduct- they refused to work. Byeee

existentialmoment · 03/10/2017 16:34

What are you saying? You will happily do it if you’re paid extra but not otherwise? So it’s not you have a issue with doing it, simply you want paying??

Isn't that true of most jobs?

Gross misconduct- they refused to work. Byeee

They refused to do something they hadn't been employed to do....hello tribunal!

Bluntness100 · 03/10/2017 16:34

So what is it you wish to see in black and white then? You’re op clearly reads you want to say the pay increase and want to not do it until you see it.

Tamatoa · 03/10/2017 16:35

Sounds like they refused to do specific things, not just 'work' araiwa

Piratesandpants · 03/10/2017 16:36

The snow fairy - absolutely agree. It's a new situation, they're reviewing the contract. show some flexibility. I work in education too - your focus should be on acting I the best interests of the student. Work with your managers, not against them. They sound reasonable, you don't. Maybe education isn't for you?

Ollycat · 03/10/2017 16:38

I have had a similar situation recently. If you are being asked to provide personal care then you should ask for written clarification as to what you are providing to cover yourself from a safeguarding issue.

Cardilover · 03/10/2017 16:39

I think this depends what your current role is - if it’s academic support (note taking, carrying books, equipment etc) then personal care is a wholly different job and you shouldn’t be asked to do it.
Personal care is arranged and funded separately, isn’t it part of the student’s care package and nothing to do with the college? (It used to be but I’ve been out of education setting for a couple of years).

Wakemeuuuup · 03/10/2017 16:40

I think that's what the line "and any other duties as required" covers

araiwa · 03/10/2017 16:40

It was well within their job remit

Id actually bent over backwards helping this person previously through their many problems and saved their job also despite more senior people telling me to get rid.

I had a chat in the morning about the issue. Detailed my expectations of a 110% entirely reasonable request. Gave them time to consider their position, knowing what the outcome would be if they refused again. Asked again in the afternoon, refused, bye

Bluntness100 · 03/10/2017 16:41

Isn't that true of most jobs?

No. She says it’s not in the contract, but she does not say if her contact remains silent on toiletting. If it doesn’t speak to it, then it could be reasonably assumed that it’s part of thr support she provides and it would be gross mis conduct if she refuses.

If the contract specifically speaks to it and states toiletting is not expected she’s on safe grounds.

existentialmoment · 03/10/2017 16:43

I would never expect toileting to form part of a contract unless specifically stated. Wiping arses is something you specifically need to be asked to do, and never something assumed unless specifically excluded.

PinkHeart5914 · 03/10/2017 16:43

Well I’d hope you’d never leave any student to soil themselves just because “it’s not in your contract” you’d have to have a heart of stone

So you don’t want it written in to your contact? You just don’t ever want to help someone with sn to the toilet?

Are you left to do this regularly or are you speaking about a couple of odd times when nobody else was around? Surely in a work environment you all chip in when need be and as long as it isn’t a regular occurrence it’s not an issue

Ollycat · 03/10/2017 16:44

I think that's what the line "and any other duties as required" covers

No personal care is viewed differently- there are important safeguarding issues- both for students and staff which need to be addressed. Personal care is provided by nominated people and may require training (to lift safely for instance) - there should be written documentation- agreed by all parties as to what is provided, how and by who.

It’s not a money issue but you need to be sure the care is provided safely and appropriately.

Timeywimey8 · 03/10/2017 16:44

"I think that's what the line "and any other duties as required" covers"

Hmm not if it's far removed from what you were employed to do. If I am say a journalist, I am not employed to clean the office toilets or work on reception. I think personal care obligations should be very clear from the start, and not imposed.

I would suggest OP, that you ask for this to be moved to Employment issues.

Springishere0 · 03/10/2017 16:45

Your work should have sorted this out before the student started. It's the mistake of those in management and they are obviously incompetent. It's too late now though. But it's not your responsibility and you can refuse. However, whether you want to do that on moral grounds is up to you.