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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not understand why the LV shooter isn't labelled as a terrorist?

120 replies

KrayKray00 · 03/10/2017 08:45

Now I might sound rather thick but I cannot understand why the shooter in Las Vegas isn't being called a terrorist.

The definition of a terrorist is

terrorist
ˈtɛrərɪst/Submit
noun
1.
a person who uses unlawful violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"four commercial aircraft were hijacked by terrorists"
synonyms: bomber, arsonist, incendiary; More
adjective
1.
unlawfully using violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.
"a terrorist organization"

Is it because it has not yet been linked to a political agenda? Or is it because he is not a "typical" terrorist?

I see him as a terrorist, what he has done is appalling.

AIBU or have I got it totally wrong?

OP posts:
MargaretTwatyer · 03/10/2017 09:39

People who say 'It's because he's white' are as distastefully exploiting a tragedy for their own political ends as people who shout 'ban Islam' every time ISIS let a bomb off.

It has nothing to do with colour and everything to do with motive and I suspect people who can't see that are either choosing not to or are extremely hard of thinking.

It's looking increasingly likely the attack had absolutely no political or religious motive and was motivated solely by personal grudges. He was a long term high stakes gambler who had the extremely rare 'high roller' status and gambled so much money casinos would make entire penthouse floors available for him and his family to party in for free. He was also an active, frequent and well known participant in the Vegas country music scene.

Given the fact he had to use his girlfriend's ID to check into the hotel and the FBI have confirmed recent heavy gambling losses it appears that there has been some sort of bad feeling developed between him and the casinos recently.

He attacked casino resorts and a country music festival which represented people and organisations with whom he had personal relationships. Not ones he had a political grudge with.

If Muslims were shooting up Mosques where they resented the worshippers over money matters and being branded Islamic terrorist then there might be a point to be made but they're not so there isn't.

The Antifa link is pure speculation based on the fact his GFs ex husband has left wing facebook likes and that a video has been posted on Twitter which shows a white middle aged man in a pussy hat at an anti-Trump march with a South East Asian woman and claims it is Paddock. However I have seen the video and it could literally be any white middle aged man in America who spends time with a SE Asian woman which includes about 3 close friends of mine and an Uncle. I honestly couldn't look at that video and say it wasn't any of them. It's massively unlikely to be Antifa related. All witness accounts from people who knew him describe him as a-political.

KityGlitr · 03/10/2017 09:41

Terrorism is the act of inflicting terror to further a political/social/religious aim. There is no known aim yet so he's not a terrorist. Wouldn't surprise me if some news outlets called him a terrorist before they new the facts, presuming it would be somebody non white, and erroneously aligned it with past terror acts committed by groups like ISIS. But without an aim he is just a mass murderer.

KityGlitr · 03/10/2017 09:43

And also he can have his own political or religious beliefs and not be a terrorist, he's only one if he was doing this to further those beliefs.

Whole interesting debate out there about how one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 09:44

It is interesting how ISIS have claimed this as one of their own. Very strange.

araiwa · 03/10/2017 09:46

not really

ISIS claim everything

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 09:47

I'm only surmising but the choice of victims is worthy of note.

Country Music event, almost entirely white audience, probably a lot of Trump supporters in the audience if not the majority of the audience.

Is the reason he's not being labelled as a terrorist because he's actually a left-wing terrorist?

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 09:49

ISIS claim everything

They didn't claim the attack in Marseille this weekend. The one where two cousins were stabbed to death in the street.

guilty100 · 03/10/2017 09:49

But I've already said, terrorism apparently DOESN'T have to have a political/social/religious aim in Nevada's legal definition. I'm not enough of an expert on American law to comment on how that works with other legal definitions over there, or what the significance of it is, but it significantly complicates the simplistic argument that "there's no political motive, therefore it's not terrorism".

I do agree with those saying that, in arguments about terrorism, ideology tends to show up when it is other than the mainstream (and to be associated therefore with race), even though the mainstream is naturally as ideological as anywhere else.

KityGlitr · 03/10/2017 09:49

Yeah there's plenty of evidence of ISIS claiming attacks that have nothing to do with, especially while they're in their death throes. When an attack is down to them they're usually pretty good at 'proving it' taking videos of the attacker beforehand, or interviewing family and friends of the attacker afterwards to testify their devotion to Islam and whatnot. ISIS are just opportunists in this case, unless they find evidence this guy was acting with them.

Altwoo · 03/10/2017 09:50

I think this sums it up well.

To not understand why the LV shooter isn't labelled as a terrorist?
MehMehAndMeh · 03/10/2017 09:50

Isis seem to have taken the stance that claiming responsibility for any incident furthers their cause whether there is any truth to the claim or not. It's the default assumption the media and a lot of the public make, so one tweet and 90% of their goal to spread fear is done without them having to have done any more than type.
It keeps them in the forefront of people's minds to claim responsibility for any and every event.

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 09:51

Yeah there's plenty of evidence of ISIS claiming attacks that have nothing to do with

Could I have an example please?

Getout21 · 03/10/2017 09:51

Whole interesting debate out there about how one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter.

A interesting point indeed particularly with the recent vote in Spain.

araiwa · 03/10/2017 09:52

or maybe people should stop making completely unsubstantiated guesses and speculation about something they literally know nothing about

im sure if it turns out there was political motives of any sort, it will be reported. in these first stage, nothing political has been released so maybe hes not a terrorist of any sort, maybe he is. but we dont know yet

guilty100 · 03/10/2017 09:53

FFS! RTFT!

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 09:54

Whole interesting debate out there about how one mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

There is, however, these days stabbing someone or driving over someone in the name of your god is NOT freedom fighting.

EccentricNamechanger · 03/10/2017 09:55

Country Music event, almost entirely white audience, probably a lot of Trump supporters in the audience if not the majority of the audience.
Is the reason he's not being labelled as a terrorist because he's actually a left-wing terrorist?

^This.

It isn't that he isn't a terrorist, it's that he appears to be the 'wrong type of terrorist'.

MargaretTwatyer · 03/10/2017 09:55

Country Music event, almost entirely white audience, probably a lot of Trump supporters in the audience if not the majority of the audience.

Is the reason he's not being labelled as a terrorist because he's actually a left-wing terrorist?

Very unlikely. What is being reported at the moment is that he himself was a country music fan and was well known on the Vegas country scene attending a lot of events.

Given that it seems much more likely it was driven by personal animosity towards others involved in that scene rather than any perception they were Trump supporters. After all, if he was a left wing terrorist why would he be going to country music events himself? A gambling high roller multi millionaire does not fit the profile of a left wing terrorist.

araiwa · 03/10/2017 09:55

i googled isis marseille and guess what......?

www.thesun.co.uk/news/4587920/marseille-train-station-attack-isis-witnesses-stabbing-army-two-dead-latest-updates/

loobyloo1234 · 03/10/2017 09:56

I think this sums it up well.

It doesn't though does it? Because the IRA were terrorists and they were white

Buck3t · 03/10/2017 09:56

M4Dad

The bias reporting is that there is no hesitation to discuss, suggest terrorism before any confirmation of anything when it is a person who is brown. In recent news reports. There is a lot more talk and debate before they determine a white person is a terrorist (I'm thinking Finsbury park most recently, but I'm sure those who continue to watch the 'news' can come up with stuff more recent).

I think the problem to prove (or disprove) this perception, is that a lot more of these attacks need to take place. I don't really want them to.

EccentricNamechanger · 03/10/2017 09:56

If ISIS claimed responsibility for the death of Cecil the Lion, the media would still report it.

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 09:57

i googled isis marseille and guess what

I do apologise, I actually meant the van attack in Ottowa over the weekend. My bad.

MargaretTwatyer · 03/10/2017 09:59

Jesus Christ. The people on this thread going 'well it was because he's white' and those going 'it must be because he's left wing' are both as bad as each other.

Ill informed, ignorant hijacking of a tragedy to grind their own political axes.

M4Dad · 03/10/2017 10:01

The bias reporting is that there is no hesitation to discuss, suggest terrorism before any confirmation of anything when it is a person who is brown

isn't that partially due to the sheer numbers of attacks carried out by people of a certain faith? There are knife and car attacks on an almost weekly basis in Europe at the moment.