Is failing PE in KS2 a problem ?

[FailingatPE]

My 9yo DS last year report from school had great scores for all subjects for achievement and effort except a single fail for PE.

As we get the reports on the last day of the year before summer, I didn't have chance to talk to the teacher and tbh I assumed it must of been an error. After all how can you fail at PE ?

However caught up with the teacher today, who said it wasn't an error. Despite good effect he failed.

I asked for more specific and I was told that he found catching and throwing a ball hard. Didn't concentrate or do teams properly. Specifically said he wasn't cut out for competitive sports and he should try archery !

Also cautioned against joining football teams at school, as the other boys are so much better than him.

I am torn between saying sod it, it is only PE, worrying or signing him up for loads of sporting things.

So the school didn't say he failed, they said his skills were below age expected expectations.

I would want to encourage an improvement. You may be happy to dismiss. Depends on the importance you attach to sport and the skill set associated with it.

I actually agree with the teacher re: the football. Unless your ds is mad keen on it, why choose a sport where he'll be far below the standard of the other players. There are so many good sports put there he could try, where he won't be at an automatic disadvantage.

I get why many people are saying its a curriculum subject so why shouldn't it be graded but I do believe that important life skills particularly PE, cookery, textiles, music, art etc. should not. I was given C's at school ('80s) for PE Cookery and art (believe me this was a massive fail in my school). I spent the next 10 years under the impression I couldn't cook, draw or do sports so I didn't bother. When I had kids I started regularly doing all of these things and actually I'm not bad at them. OK I won't be exhibited in the national gallery any time soon but it is an important thing that I now do to help me relax. Yes absolutely you need something in place in year 9 so you don't have people taking them for GCSE when their skills will be better served taking a different option but other than that you need encouraging feed back so they are not afraid to try and continue these things in adulthood. In the case of the OP she has interpreted the grade as 'fail' the negative terminology will then be in the consciousness of her child. If no mark had been given but just a comment 'try spending time over the summer catching and throwing balls as x has struggled with some of these activities and maybe go out for a regular run which x really enjoys, it would be a far more positive and useful way of passing on the same information.

Hayesking, the pe teachers day will finish at 3.30, and only works 9 months of the year. he won't have marking to do or lesson planning. If he's running a team for the sporty boys he do something for those who are struggling,

If your son joins the football team and is terrible at it he will be miserable. Honestly what is wrong with buying a football and kicking it about with him?? Next year he will have improved hugely.

I think maths and English are "important life skills" too billy. And they get graded and kids who don't reach expectations are (rightly) expected to carry on their efforts to improve at them. I don't see why PE should be different, except that some parents of academically able but none sporty children get upset that their child can't be the top in everything.

I think you have totally misjudged this. The report doesn't say your son is failing. It says he doesn't meet the expectations for his age. I expect there is a list of things a 9 year old is expected to be able to do, and he can't do them all. That's not being mean and knocking his confidence, it's an objective assessment, and if the teacher had put meets expectations he would have been lying.

The problem is that often with subjects like PE and art, kids just seem to be expected to be naturally able and don't get extra help or specifically taught how to do something if they're not.

My ds is really not good at art. It gets commented on at pretty much every parents' evening. If it was maths, the teacher would be telling me how they were helping him get better or what we could do at home, but when they tell me he can't draw it's more like mocking him than anything constructive.

It is true though that more could be done to encourage the less able children in some schools.

Sports day this year consisted of my son sat on the field all day watching the sporty kids compete. Actually this was what his entire PE set did.

Worse...I was invited to take the day off work in order to "support my child"...presumably by watching him watch the sporty kids compete...

If I get that letter this year they are getting a reply possibly including the idea that it would be a more productive day if I took him out of school and took him swimming...

Northern parent, of course PE teachers need to mark and lesson plan, do you think PE lesson plans magically appear? Expecting free after school coaching is ridiculous. OP the schoolhave not said he has failed, they said he is working below expectations. It sounds like the teacher gave you some good advice you have either taken it the wrong way or embellished it for dramatic effect on a forum.

I wouldn't worry.
My ds isn't good at sport - yet is a fairly good swimmer.
He's also apparently just got a U for music because he won't perform in front of the class. Well he has ASD and anxiety. I'm waiting for data capture and then I'll ask was grade based on ability to perform or ability to play the instrument. If the former - then fair enough (and still don't care!) and if latter I'll be asking why they didn't make adjustments.

However any pe or music teacher that discouraged my ds would be met with well he's a better swimmer than most of his year and can compose music on a sound programme of a very high standard.
Just because they don't tick the NC box doesn't mean they don't have ability.

An entire thread based on the OP's judgement of 'working towards age-related expectations' as 'failing'.

I'm a little concerned that OP appears (to me at least) to be shooting the messenger.

Her DS is lacking in certain physical skills that are expected of 9yos, such as being able to throw and catch. Neither the curriculum nor the teacher are making outrageous demands of performance level, rather they set out what is normal and then say whether it has been met.

As things like movement and hand/eye co-ordination are important skills, then isn't it better to know they need working on? And then find (subtle) ways to incorporate practice into when you play with him?

Of course you can fail pe!

Meditrina- then what are the school doing about it? Are they helping him learn to throw and catch? If he can't do it, are they looking at why? Or are PE lessons focused on playing football and netball and if you can't do it, then tough.

What are the age related expectations for PE? Is there a list?

Yes there is a list.

And the school will be dealing with it by hiving him x hours of PE a week. There may be additional help for those with particular problems in this area (our school has special classes for children with physical co ordination priblems) but you are not necessarily going to get special interventions just because you are below age expected expectations, any more than you do in other subjects.

Is this the list? From Gov National Curriculum PE key stage 2:

Key stage 2
Pupils should continue to apply and develop a broader range of skills, learning how to use them in different ways and to link them to make actions and sequences of movement. They should enjoy communicating, collaborating and competing with each other. They should develop an understanding of how to improve in different physical activities and sports and learn how to evaluate and recognise their own success.

Pupils should be taught to:

use running, jumping, throwing and catching in isolation and in combination
play competitive games, modified where appropriate [for example, badminton, basketball, cricket, football, hockey, netball, rounders and tennis], and apply basic principles suitable for attacking and defending
develop flexibility, strength, technique, control and balance [for example, through athletics and gymnastics]
perform dances using a range of movement patterns
take part in outdoor and adventurous activity challenges both individually and within a team
compare their performances with previous ones and demonstrate improvement to achieve their personal best

OP- do YOU think your isn't meeting these expectations?

If a teacher has to tell you that your child is struggling to read at the expected level, you would hope that they would also tell you what measures they are putting in place and activities they are organising to help your child improve. You would hope they wouldn’t immediately start talking about their elite readers’ book club, which your child can’t join.

All three of mine were rubbish at school pe, it's often the case if they are not team players. However, as adults I now have a long distance walker, a sailor and a yoga addict. School pe lacks diversity, equal opportunities to find your strengths and is unfortunately still as detested as it was 50 years ago by many.
Yes, you can fail primary pe, and secondary. The question you need to ask is 'Is my child fit and healthy, doing some form of exercise every week?' If the answer is yes, no problem. If not, find something they like.

Slightly off the point OP, but DH coaches Fencing and he gets a lot of children who are not great team game players and have some co-ordination issues. The discipline of Fencing often appeals to bright children or those who like strict rules to follow.

the pe teachers day will finish at 3.30, and only works 9 months

What rubbish! PE teachers give up their evenings and weekends stood on pitches in the cold and rain to take your kids to fixtures!

They also take other classes

If my kids were doing badly at a subject I'd help them improve all this 'school are responsible' is only partly true

Go play catch with him! Help him with co-ordination. You have an equal responsibility

My ds isn't good at sport - yet is a fairly good swimmer

How can you say he isn’t good at sport then? You do know swimming is a sport?

It’s like the pe teacher i referred to above thinking my elite level gymnast isn’t good at sport- because they are judging by her ability at netball.

Read all the posts by people who were told and believed they weren’t good at something only to discover later in life that wasn’t true at all.

Your son is good at sport. He is a good swimmer. Please don’t let him believe he is not.

If he is actually planning lessons, then they should include differentiation and targeted support for his WT students to make good progress.

I got the same mark for my 6 year old, she had also been awarded not meeting expectations for Art. What was bizarre about this assessment of her skills is that she had been awarded fastest runner in her year certificate for sports day. Equally, she is very good at drawing as she sketches with her Dad who is an Architect and has taught her how to draw buildings.

To be honest I trust my husband's judgement on this- he went to Art college, and the training for Architecture was about 7 years and he's 8 years post qualified, this is in comparison to the judgement of an NQT.

So an architect knows more about child development and drawing than the teacher? Teacher would have been looking at fine motor skills, figure drawing and creativity. Rather than perspective and elevations.