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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not give my kids the flu jab?

135 replies

MerryMarigold · 28/09/2017 09:18

Every year this comes round and every year I don't do it, because I don't feel I know enough about it, so I think better to leave it. This year I have a few days left to decide. Anecdotally some kids seem to get quite sick after it (and it's just before half term - coincidence?!). And why do they need it every year if it gives immunity? Plus how many people actually get real flu? I know it's not pleasant, but is it worse than getting a mild version of flu every year after the jab?

So, if you are doing it/ not doing it and know something 'proper' about it, please let me know.

OP posts:
Anatidae · 28/09/2017 17:13

svientisys don't know all the DNA in eggs so you are getting some of this unknown genetic material put directly into your blood.

I'm not sure where to start with that one actually. Confused being an actual geneticist and all.

We do 'know all the DNA in eggs.' Chickens have been sequenced.

And it doesn't work like that. It's not a viral-egg free for all where they exchange DNA in a kind of flu virus eggy orgy Confused

And not all vaccine is even grown in eggs, there are recombinant versions for example. It always makes me roll my eyes when people say they've done research. They mean they've read the mercola (🦆🦆🦆) website and some guff off the web.

Shouldnotwouldnot · 28/09/2017 17:20

I'm desperate to get it for my daughter but the surgery just keep saying they don't have any in yet

ThanksForAllTheFish · 28/09/2017 17:31

I'm not getting it for my DD this year. She has had the nasal spray for the past 3 years and each time she has been very ill afterwards. Sick enough to miss a week (or more) of school and took a good 3/4 weeks to fully recover.

I have been told each time that is not the flu spray - just a coincidence she got ill 3/4 days later with flu like symptoms (very high temp, runny nose, aches and pains, sleeping all day, refusing to eat or drink- too ill to get out of bed).

The first time it happened I gave it the benefit of the doubt. The second time It happened I believed the Dr again that it was just a coincidence but after the 3rd time I made my mind up that she wouldn't have the flu spray again. Last year was the worst it was a well over a month before she was back to her old self.

I think it works well for the majority of children but my DD doesn't react well to it at all.

ZigZagIntoTheBlue · 28/09/2017 17:36

My oldest is getting it at school, I'm eligible to get it from the docs and my husband will pay to get it from sainsburys. My youngest is too young to have it on NHS and I doubt sainsburys do the spray so I'll have to just hope that enough other people close to him get it and he doesn't come into contact with it.

LuchiMangsho · 28/09/2017 20:35

Ahem. DH who actually works on making the flu vaccine says the whole DNA/egg thing is genuinely nonsense. What do you mean you did research? He could recommend a whole host of peer reviewed material on PubMed for you...

sashh · 29/09/2017 09:39

The first time it happened I gave it the benefit of the doubt. The second time It happened I believed the Dr again that it was just a coincidence but after the 3rd time I made my mind up that she wouldn't have the flu spray again.

It could still be a coincidence, 5 out of the last 6 years I have had a chest infection in the October half term, no other time, just then. I don't think there is a link it's just that I get ill at that time (have a few underlying conditions.)

If she is ill this year (And I don't wish it on anyone) will you change your mind?

AGnu · 29/09/2017 09:58

I called my GP about getting my home-educated children done. They're of an age where they'd be offered it in school on the NHS but apparently the GP can't do it. If they're not in school then we have to take them to Boots... Who say they don't start doing it for another 3 weeks! I really can't see any logical reason why the GP can't do it - they've had all previous vaccinations there & the waiting room is covered in posters about how important it is to be vaccinated. Obviously not that important to them, given everyone's reluctance! Hmm

raviolidreaming · 29/09/2017 11:04

It's not a viral-egg free for all where they exchange DNA in a kind of flu virus eggy orgy

🤔 That's exactly what a government agent instructed to control population numbers / undertake some sort of large scale mind alternation programme / weaken us against the establishment would want us to think...

Original poster
MerryMarigold · 29/09/2017 11:35

It could still be a coincidence

Really unlikely if it is always 3-4 days afterwards and she doesn't get very, very frequent colds/ high temps.

OP posts:
Anatidae · 29/09/2017 11:54

Really unlikely if it is always 3-4 days afterwards and she doesn't get very, very frequent colds/ high temps.

I know you're talking about the spray, but.. Many jabs have a noticeable effect when the immune system is challenged. It's not getting the disease though in the case of the flu jab, because the virus is not live. What happens when your immune system swings into gear is that you can feel a bit peaky. A lot of the behaviours we associate with sickness aren't actually caused by the bug itself, they are caused by the reaction of our immune system to it.
So it's perfectly possibly to feel a bit off colour and fluey after a jab, I've had it myself. It's not the flu, it's your immune system going ' what? What's this?! Fuck me, Brian, Brian! It's flu! Get the troops... oh wait, no no it's just dead antigen, false alarm..."

Feeling a bit bleurgh a few days after a jab is part of the normal range of reactions to it. It's ok, and it doesn't mean you have the disease in question. I had a series of rabies jabs years back (long story) and I felt dire after every single one.

If you feel your child is better after the injection rather than the spray then that's totally your prerogative to get the jab. I prefer needles to the spray myself. I've also found that my son is a trooper with needles but goes nuts if you try to put a syringe full of calpol near him or anything up his nose :)

drspouse · 29/09/2017 11:57

AGnu the sniff is not out at the GP surgery for my 3yo and delivery in schools is also not expected yet. No need for paranoia or irritation, it's the same for everyone.

Justdontknow4321 · 29/09/2017 12:02

I don't let my children have it for the same reason - I don't know much about it. They make an educated guess at which flu strains it will be so no certainty it will even be effective. I'm not just going to say yes, go on then let's try it out. I assume it is for herd immunity rather than specifically to protect my healthy child.

JonSnowsWife · 29/09/2017 12:03

Anyone considering not vaccinating should think about what would happen if we get a flu epidemic like the one in 1918-19, which infected 500 million people (a third of the world's population) and killed up to 50 million, half of whom were young adults.

You're thinking, "Yes but medicine has moved on. That wouldn't happen now." Wrong.

Thanks but DS can't have it. The last vaccine he had nearly killed him (no I'm not an antivaxxer - [ his temperature shot up, wouldn't come down despite plying him with copious amounts of Calpol and nurofen ] and he ended up in hospital with major breathing problems) so any future jabs he needs are passed through his GP who can monitor him more closely and decide what he needs and doesn't need.

Flu is a virus, so antibiotics do not kill it. Tamiflu, which the government wasted millions on stockpiled during the swine flu outbreak has been shown to be useless.

Sorry I disagree there. Tamiflu worked very well for myself and other patients when we ended up on the High Dependancy Ward with the flu (we were given a cocktail of drugs, one of which included Tamiflu). Whilst it may not work for all. It isn't completely useless.

drspouse · 29/09/2017 12:11

I assume it is for herd immunity rather than specifically to protect my healthy child.

No, it's to protect your vulnerable (because young) child and other vulnerable people.
If you aren't educated enough, read the NHS info and ask HCPs who are.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 29/09/2017 12:16

It isn't't completely useless, but Roche deliberately hid the experimental data for a reason. It isn't very effective as a treatment at all.

It reduces the length of symptoms by about 16hrs but has no effect on the rate of complications.

Where it does seem to have efficacy is as a preventative for preventing the transmission of flu.

sashh · 29/09/2017 12:38

Really unlikely if it is always 3-4 days afterwards and she doesn't get very, very frequent colds/ high temps.

I only get one chest infection and it is always the same time. As I said what happens if she is ill this year?

GrockleBocs · 29/09/2017 12:47

For those of you urging people to get the jab, I have one thing to say.
Thanks for the reminder :) I went for a routine smear yesterday and whilst i was there, because these threads were fresh in my mind, checked whether my health condition was on the list for the jab. It is so she did it there and then.

CiderwithBuda · 29/09/2017 13:28

I had the jab this morning at Boots. Never had it before so will be interested to see if I react.

Also just remembered I forgot to pay so am on hold to Boots now to try to pay by phone! BlushGrin

SelmaAndJubjub · 29/09/2017 14:54

e. Tamiflu worked very well for myself and other patients when we ended up on the High Dependancy Ward with the flu (we were given a cocktail of drugs, one of which included Tamiflu). Whilst it may not work for all. It isn't completely useless.

That tells you nothing. You have no idea what would have happened if you hadn't had Tamiflu. How do you know your recovery wasn't due to one of the other drugs - or luck? Properly conducted studies have shown Tamiflu to be ineffective as a treatment though, as a PP said, it has some effect in prophylaxis.

Anyway, you are spectacularly missing the point, which is that no one should turn down the vaccine, in the mistaken belief that there are effective treatments for flu. There are not.

ThanksForAllTheFish · 29/09/2017 19:59

sashh if she gets ill this year then I might reconsider for next year. Not sure yet but probably.

That said she has always had fevers and reactions to every single vaccine she has had since she was a baby. Granted not quite on the same scale as after the flu nasal spray.

I'm not anti vaccine and she has had all the required ones so far, I just don't see the flu one as a necessity like the others. DH and I agreed before she got it last year that if she took ill again then we would leave it this year.

It's not just that she gets ill, although that is not pleasant, it takes her months to regain her weight as her appetite is not the same for a long time afterwards. She is a tiny little thing floating around the 10th centile for weight. She has ended up in the underweight category every year after she has been ill and then we spend 3 months trying to get the weight back on her.

I honestly just think her body doesn't react well to it. Previously she would catch 3-4 colds a year. Always one in summer and 2-3 over winter. Shes never had a flu.

She's also not one to get sickness and diarrhoea, she is almost 8 and had 3 bouts of sickness and 1 diarrhoea in all that time. She did however get chicken pox 3 times since she was a toddler and scarlet fever twice (consecutively) she was ill for 5 weeks solid - over easter holidayxand beyond- and took months and months to get back to her normal self after that.

JonSnowsWife · 29/09/2017 20:09

Anyway, you are spectacularly missing the point, which is that no one should turn down the vaccine, in the mistaken belief that there are effective treatments for flu. There are not

Where on earth did I insinuate people should turn down the vaccine? Confused someone said it was useless I said it worked alongside other drugs we were given. So not entirely useless. Which was my point. Hmm

TheMasterNotMargarita · 29/09/2017 20:13

Dd always gets the nasal spray. Every year.
She also had the swine flu jag when it was offered, think she was about 3?
I have had flu 2x. Once in my early 20s and my father had to physically carry me to the car to get me to the doctors.
The second time I was delirious for about a week, had to crawl on hands and knees to the bathroom. Sat in the shower for about 2 weeks after as was so destroyed. Took a good while to recover.
I am young (ish) fit and otherwise healthy. I wouldnt wish flu on my worst enemy.

GertiesEyebrow · 29/09/2017 20:26

Stigma, I've had the flu. Literally couldn't move for 5 days. I don't remember feeling awful for weeks after. Might have done though. Either way, don't underestimate it.
We are not vaccinating.

WanderingTrolley1 · 29/09/2017 20:28

My children won't be having it.

AutomaticSteeple · 30/09/2017 01:09

My boys have had it the last few years, they had it yesterday. They have never been unwell after it. I have had flu once in my life, it was horrific, I had to crawl everywhere even up the stairs to the toilet stopping every few to get some breath, I was terrified. I didn't realise adults could get the jab privately I may look into that, I'd certainly like to avoid getting flu again if I can