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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are they breaking the law?

43 replies

Sunshinerainbowslollipops · 27/09/2017 22:24

Aibu to think the following is a shit situation and DHs employers are taking the piss? DH works full time and applied for flexible working, this was one day a week to work from home, personal reasons as to why this is helpful (hospital appointments for me etc, means he can drive me in lunch break). Anyway, the company is set up well to mean this is possible, other employees do so, there is no reason for it not to work (i.e. He doesn't need to be in the office, could understand you can't work from home if you work in retail or similar). It was agreed as long as he was not needed in the office. Fine he thought, big meetings, specific training etc etc all reasonable but there is ALWAYS something. The flexible working agreement isn't worth the paper it's written on as there is always something they say he is needed to come in for. Think booking interviews on this day (4 other days of the week to choose from, meetings to discuss non essential matters again could be arranged on the 4 other days). It's driving me mad. Does he stand anywhere legally on this? I thought businesses had to grant flexible working unless good reason not to and there isn't a good reason and so it was granted but it just seems box ticking as he is NEVER able to work from home. Any advice? Does he just have to accept that his flexible working doesn't exist? Frustrated as why did they agree it when what they meant was yes you can work from home one day a week unless you are needed in the office and we will ensure that you are indeed always needed in the office so will never work from home... Thanks in advance.

OP posts:
QuackDuckQuack · 27/09/2017 22:36

Is it clear in his calendar that he is wfh that day? When I book meetings at work I check whether the other person is free and if they work at different sites/wfh then I try to pick a day that they will be at my site (if I want a face-to-face meeting). But I don't remember everyone's personal schedule, so if their location or wfh isn't in their calendar then I won't know that they won't be in the office.

Brokenbiscuit · 27/09/2017 22:37

It doesn't sound like they're doing anything illegal, no. If he is never able to work from home, then it sounds like they shouldn't have agreed the flexible working request, but it isn't really your place to judge whether their reasons are good or not. It can be a nightmare trying to coordinate meetings and interviews when everyone has different working patterns

What is your DH's take on it? Did he not usually have meetings on these days previously, or was he assuming that they would be arranged on different days because of the change in pattern? From the company's point of view, if they're still paying him for five days a week, they may want to retain the flexibility around when meetings can be booked.

I'm not opposed to flexible working btw. On the contrary, I have bent over backwards to try and facilitate this for various members of my team, because they are good at what they do and I want to keep them. Also, I see them as individuals with lives outside work that are important. However, as a manager, it can be incredibly inconvenient and accommodating people's preferred flexible working patterns undoubtedly increases my workload. So I can see why some employers aren't keen.

Brokenbiscuit · 27/09/2017 22:38

Very good point about the calendars too - does your DH mark out clearly when he is wfh?

OwlinaTree · 27/09/2017 22:39

It does sound a bit like they are taking the mickey, I would expect some flexibility based on the fact I often have a nightmare trying to arrange meetings when half the people who need to attend work on different days, but every week is not on.

MumsOnCrack · 27/09/2017 22:40

Yes to booking it out in his calendar and then reject requests for meetings for that time? I've requested flexible working and will bloody well make sure I'm inflexible about my flexibility - if you know what I mean?! If he had to pick up a child from school, he'd just say no?!? No?

Tazerface · 27/09/2017 22:41

I agree I think he needs to be clear when he's WFH so they know he's not available. They obviously can't accommodate an ad and when situation so he'll have to stick to a regular day.

If they have people doing that already it's probably why - too difficult to accommodate all.

Original poster
Sunshinerainbowslollipops · 27/09/2017 22:43

Thanks everyone. Yes it is absolutely clear he wfh on every Friday. Small office and EVERYONE is aware. It will get to Thursday and his boss says oh by the way I've asked such and such to meet with you to discuss xyz which is usually something unimportant and could be done on any of the other 4 days of the week. He is majorly annoyed by it but says it typical of the company....

OP posts:
Original poster
Sunshinerainbowslollipops · 27/09/2017 22:46

Does anyone know about the legalities of allowing flexible working? I thought it had to granted unless good business reason not to? It has been granted and theyve said there is no business reason not to but they aren't allowing it to happen. Is there any challenge that can be made?

OP posts:
fiorentina · 27/09/2017 22:47

Can he be more assertive and respond to that reminding he's working from home and suggesting a call or another time. I had to be quite straight when I started my job but now everyone is used to it, it's not a problem usually.

LadyLoveYourWhat · 27/09/2017 22:47

Make sure he blocks his flexi time out in his calendar, if someone books something non-essential over it, I would make liberal use of the "propose alternative time" button, or suggest that they give him a call (our meeting rooms all have speaker phones in) or Skype him in if that's possible.

MattAffleck · 27/09/2017 22:51

Legally speaking I think the company only has to consider requests for flexible working. I don't think the law can dictate to a company that they MUST allow flexible working. I might be wrong.

paq · 27/09/2017 22:52

I doubt he has any legal redress.

I have an employee who wfh one day per week but if business needs means she has to be in then she is in.

It sounds like your DH's boss isn't willing to be flexible.

Coastalcommand · 27/09/2017 22:54

Is he part of a union?

Hugepeppapigfan · 27/09/2017 22:54

I suppose the thing is that they are paying him for that day so can direct his work. Might he be better asking for flexible working that is actually a Friday off?

RunningOutOfCharge · 27/09/2017 22:55

He can request flexible working

But no, it’s not something a company is forced to grant. Seems it’s clear that it’s not working in this case so they are in a good Position to say no

LadyLoveYourWhat · 27/09/2017 22:56

I agree with Florentina, I think your DH will need to be a bit more assertive and question his boss booking meetings on his working from home days after having agreed to the flexible working. Perhaps they could agree what situations mean it is essential to have a meeting on a Friday to make sure that they are both clear?

Mouikey · 27/09/2017 22:56

Flexible working requests do not need to be granted unless there is a good business case. They must be considered but a business can (in essence) give any reason to say no and argue it's a business case.

That hasn't happened here though, they have granted the request and are now not honouring it - did he sign a new contract?

Catinthecorner · 27/09/2017 23:02

But, if other (female) staff have caring responsibilities and their associated flexible work arrangement is honoured, you could argue the company believe only women can have caring responsibilities and that would put it in the muddy field of discrimination.

ADishBestEatenCold · 27/09/2017 23:04

Would it be better if he changed his WFH day to another day? For example, a Wednesday?

I would have thought a Friday might be the least convenient day for a company to have members of staff working out the office ... it gets to Thursday and things have to be scheduled before the weekend, then the only day left to schedule them for is Friday and ... to be fair to his employers ... it does sound as if that may be what's happening > > "It will get to Thursday and his boss says oh by the way I've asked such and such to meet with you to discuss xyz".

I can see a Friday would be great to WFH from an employee's point of view, but from a company point of view perhaps not such a good choice (no matter who was responsible for selecting it).

SusanTheGentle · 27/09/2017 23:04

I work with a number of colleagues who have flexible working arrangements, some of which are like this: they're wfh for a day or two a week.

Those days are sacrosanct and we may not arrange any meetings with them or similar for the days that they are not in, unless there is a supremely good reason, like "John is the only person with this knowledge and the two people we need to meet only work Fridays and this meeting will happen once a year", and they then come in only for that meeting.

Yes it's hard to arrange stuff sometimes. Yes it's not the most convenient thing for employers. But not allowing flexible working is shitty when a little bit of thought makes it work.

So your DH's employer is being crap, and he ought to be pushing back on this and consulting ACAS about it. Has he got standing to start simply declining these meetings? That's what my colleagues do if we make a mistake and invite them anyway.

SingingMySong · 27/09/2017 23:09

I had this. My LM agreed flex working, but his boss would come up with something I needed to stay for every week.

I found a new job.

It might help to just be a bit more assertive. He could contact customers he's been set up with and offer them a choice of rearranging for another day or doing it over the phone. Every time boss says x has gone into his diary, he could remind him he's WFH and perhaps rearrange or offer to rearrange the meeting, or arrange to phone in. He could block out his diary with specific tasks that are suitable for being done from home. He could sit his manager down and explain the problem. I didn't feel I could do any of these things as I was so junior in my team at that point, so I sympathise if none of these are suitable suggestions, but it's just some ideas.

Slimthistime · 27/09/2017 23:13

don't think there's any legal issue unless they actually amended his contract?

BubblesBuddy · 27/09/2017 23:17

ACAS have an excellrnt policy for home working and guidance on how to set this up. From what you say, your DHs company seem light on policy and organisation regarding how it should work. To be clear though, a company does not have to agree to it if it is not in their interests. Both parties should get something out of it. I suggest you go into their web site and read their advice and then your DH can argue from a position of being well informed. He should have a contract stating the arrangements as well.

LonginesPrime · 27/09/2017 23:24

Yes, I agree that if the employers have agreed the WFH, he should push back more.

No-one else is going to care that he wants to work remotely, so unless he cares enough to do something about it and stand up for himself, it doesn't sound like his arrangement is going to be honoured.

If he pushes back and his employers have a problem with it, he could then sit down with them and think about whether another day might be best, etc. But I know loads of people who really have to fight for the flexible working they've had agreed because no-one else actually gives a monkey's that you need to work from home and you have to stick to your guns until they get the message.

PollyFlint · 27/09/2017 23:28

I thought businesses had to grant flexible working unless good reason not to

They don't have to grant it. The law says you're entitled to request it and they have to consider your request - but legally they have every right to say no. Also 'flexible working' and 'working from home' aren't the same thing - working from home might be considered to be one type of flexible working, but flexible working can also mean things like changing your start and finish times, working from another office location, doing compressed hours Monday - Thursday in order to do a half-day on Friday, or any number of other things. So by not fitting meetings around his WFH day, they're not breaking the law. They aren't obliged to put themselves out by not booking meetings on his WFH day, I'm afraid. I do sympathise as I know it's annoying, and maybe he needs to discuss it properly with his line manager and be a bit more open/assertive about it, but they aren't breaking the law at all.

I would also say that if meetings require him to be present in the room, the company isn't actually set up well at all for employees to work from home. Where I work, we all WFH at least one day a week, but it doesn't stop anyone attending meetings - all the meeting rooms have video conferencing screens and we attend via Skype.