to ask if it's possible to grow up without growing apart?

[user1494426473]

Just that really, and if so, how? My relationship with my DH began in our early twenties when life was completely different and when we ourselves were very different people, possibly with more in common than we have now.

Fast forward ten years and I'm not sure DH likes the person I have grown into. Over the past few years I've become more informed about certain issues including feminism, equality, animal welfare and I feel quite strongly that human beings have a duty to participate in life. What I mean by that is that those who are in a fortunate enough position to be able to take care of others should, and that we live on a beautiful planet and should make the most of what it has to offer us (I'm quite outdoorsy and like to get out and about, even if it's just a little walk over to explore a new local village and have a coffee at the weekend, anything to get out of the house really). I do a bit of volunteer work when I can and I'm more liberal than I once was, tending to take the view that as long as someone's actions don't hurt others then it's no one else's place to judge. I'm keen to stress that this is NOT some kind of smug self-righteous do-gooder behaviour on my part. I was a pretty selfish, bratty teenager and I suppose now that I'm old enough to recognise what I was like then I do make a conscious effort to try and be kind to others and participate in society.

My DH on the other hand has become more conservative (I use that in the traditional sense of the word, I don't mean affiliation to a political party). He is quite quick to judge the actions of others but when I ask him why he feels so strongly about something that doesn't affect him or harm anyone else he can't explain why. He is a real homebody and if we make plans during the week to go out at the weekend he will usually come up with some excuse not to go and we end up staying in all the time. When we first started dating he made a big show of helping out with the housework, cooking etc and now I realise that was a bit of a veneer he put on while we were dating and that he sees the housework as my job and will only help when asked repeatedly and even then only begrudgingly. I do feel that I am now lumbered with a man-child and it does make me a little sad that we're not equal partners at home. I frequently have to call him out on everyday sexism and have to encourage and cajole him to do things for others, such as visiting his mum and dad which he NEVER does unless he needs something. I know they'd love to see more of him. I love him and he's good to me but perhaps he's not as kind or considerate a person as I had hoped he would be.

I get the feeling that he sees me as turning into some kind of raging feminist liberal hippy who wants to save the planet and in turn I'm mourning the fact that my partner has grown into someone with such traditional views on gender and who just wants to stay at home in his own little bubble all the time. To be clear, I love him deeply and have absolutely no intention of ending the relationship and given that it's probably me who has changed more than him I do recognise that perhaps this is more my problem than his. Overall he is a very good person who would never try to hurt me and who has always been supportive of me both financially and emotionally. The everyday sexism etc doesn't stem from a bad place, I think he has just followed in his parents' generations' footsteps and doesn't tend to question why things should be any different now but it does cause friction between us as he feels like I challenge him on it just to be difficult.

Question is, does anyone else out there feel that there are very different people now to when they met their DP and if so how do you navigate growing older together without losing common ground? Can two very different people live in harmony together?

Your differences sound quite fundamental to me tbh. I recognise a lot of what you say and it is natural, I think, to change through the years but it's a fine line between that and completely growing out of each other.

I guess if you love him and want to be with him then you have to accept him and he you but some things (housework, parents) seem to me to be a quite serious indicator of an essential selfishness in him.

Yes, we have grown differently along similar lines as you and your DH. I've definitely got more angry and activist, and DH more routinised and a bit more conservative. What's changed for us is that DH has now got a chronic illness. I think pain shapes his worldview in certain ways. Where he might have previously participated in "my" stuff, he can't always manage that anymore.

Additionally, things that I've really been desperate to pursue career wise have been ruled out as he finds it hard to cope with adventure, change and the exertion this causes. This has caused conflict and sadness on both sides. What's really helped us has been having counselling separately. It helps us talk more, and listen better. I'm saving up my travelling and activism for later years when DCs have left home.

However, even though my DH is ill he still does his fair share around the house. It would be a red line for me if my partner expected me to do all the chores. Likewise I just wouldn't want to be with an everyday sexist. Biggest turn off ever!

Yes RebeccaWithTheGoodHair perhaps some of our differences are quite fundamental but we love each other very much and on a day to day basis our relationship is very strong. He can be selfish, and that's the biggest issue we have I think, but I suspect it's an innate part of his personality that isn't going to change and outside of the selfishness he really is a very warm and caring person who will regularly go the extra mile to make me happy. His selfishness is generally the "thoughtless/inconsiderate" variety, rather than anything deliberate.

Yes GreyCloudsToday my DH has no desire to travel or try new things either, he doesn't deal well with change. I on the other hand would love to go away and work in another country for a short time. Like you I am "saving" my adventures for another year, when we're in such a position that I can go off by myself and scratch the travel itch. I have come to the conclusion that if DH is occasionally selfish then it's a difficult trait to change in someone and my best bet is probably to be a bit more selfish myself and just go ahead and do the things I want to do in life without worrying too much. I'm sorry to hear about your DH's illness, that must have changed your life quite drastically. Was there another reason that you both sought independent counselling or was it that you felt you were growing apart?

We are in a transitional period at the moment but as soon as I'm able to I plan to take up a couple of new hobbies and make sure my weekends are busy doing things i enjoy. I also wonder if DH and I need more shared experiences to give us more things in common now rather than just focusing on our differences. He would like to join the gym and I love to swim so am thinking we might get joint membership and go to gym together after work. I think now that the exhilarating days of dating are over we need to make a conscious effort to do things together and find common ground.

So, to get this straight, he:
Is a sexist (ie disrespects you and other women)
Won't do his fair share around the house
Won't go out and do things with you which results in you doing nothing
Doesn't seem to be making any changes of his own or even to be that bothered about these issues (?)

You are incompatible, yes, but that can be overcome with some compromise and basic respect. From what I can see you are compromising and he is disrespecting you. I'm not sure why you bother tbh.

I hate to use the expression 'red flag' but I have been bidding along to all of this and we are now separated after 25 years together. Got together aged 21. He left me with a 4yo and a 1yo earlier this year.

Unfortunately I think the selfishness is something that can't be overcome if you have children. He was never able to make the sacrifices needed or handle my attention being redirected to our children.

If you're planning to have a family I would think very carefully.

I find it really really odd that you say that this is more your problem than his. I wonder why you believe that? I mean at the very least you should expect your partner to do his fair share of keeping your life going and not disrespect you. These things aren't a matter of pickiness or differences in personality, they're very very very basic fundamentals.

Typos! I meant nodding along
And 15 years together

Hi TheSparrowhawk. No, I wouldn't expect you to see why I bother as you're not in the relationship. As with most people who come to talk on MN, the issue raised is only a very small part of our relationship, the rest of which is very strong and loving. He can be selfish and he can also be extremely generous, loyal and good humoured. If he wasn't then I wouldn't be asking about growing old together, I'd be packing my bags.

His everyday sexism manifests itself in small ways, not the "disrespect for women" you seem to think it is. For example, assuming I will have the pink toothbrush in a two pack of toothbrushes, or giving me the smaller, daintier wine glass if we are pouring into mis-matched glasses. Silly, infuriating things that I call him out on as I do think it's a bit outdated. Do I feel disrespected in that sense though? No. Do I wish he would do more at home? Yes.

What does he say when you talk about the fact that he isn't pulling his weight?

It's an interesting topic. I met my DH 11 yrs ago at 24 and he was a very driven, educated and worldly 32. Like you, I feel like I've grown and become clear on my views in the years I've been with him but feel like he's never noticed really and still sees me as the junior thinker. I looked up to him and learned so much from him, not least independent thinking ironically, and now I feel a little dismissed or like he's not interested in what I have to say about things. Where I'd like to debate he continues to lecture which used to be great when he had so much to teach me. Now it's not what I want or need out of our conversations but it's hard to point out to him that I've grown whereas he has not similarly in the same period. He'd done his critical growing just before I even met him.

TheSparrowhawk he is unable to do 50% due to working very long hours. I work part time and can do more during the week (and am happy to do so as I do work less hours), however at weekends I feel he should take over the lion's share for keeping on top of things at weekends seeing as I do it all during the week. His response is usually that he works long hours all week and the weekends are his down time. He will usually do things when asked, but I would appreciate it if he occasionally did them without me having to ask. He will wash up quite happily, take the bins out and occasionally do some gardening if prompted, it's generally the cooking, cleaning, vacuuming, dog walking, ironing etc that he is reluctant to help with and which takes up most of the time.

So his response is 'I work hard so I'm not going to do it'?

Hi KarateKitten yes I think a lot of it does come down to independent thought. My DH is quite happy with how the world ticks along and doesn't tend to question things, where as possibly I do see injustices more than he does but also recognise that we have the power to change them. And yes the age must play a role, perhaps at 32 he was more established in his personality and views than you were at 24. I certainly know i've changed a lot since 24. But can someone grow without leaving the other person behind? Does your DH acknowledge the value of your views and opinions on things?

I feel like I am in a very similar situation, although probably a bit worse than yours.

I have a man-child too, someone who is by nature quite selfish and can be very inconsiderate, especially if I am unwell or stressed. However, you seem to be in a loving relationship where you feel loved. I have never really felt properly loved, so I suppose my situation is different.

I also go out and do things on my own as my partner would prefer to stay at home and sleep. It does feel lonely sometimes but I have accepted that. I don't however know how to put up with his sometimes selfish/inconsiderate behaviour especially at difficult times. It seems you have come to terms with it. Please can you share how?

Interesting topic. I have found that me and STBH have grown together on many levels (we met when I was 22, 22 year ago), but we have also grown apart as we have both "stepped into character" and become more pronounced versions of our younger selves. He remarked recently that I am "just like my mum and my sister". I think when I was younger I tried very much to NOT be my mum, but as I grow older, I am more like my mum and my sister, and it feels good. I have never met his dad, so I can't say if it's the same for him, but he does seem to have become an exaggerated version of his younger self!

I have become more feminist, and has become more sexist.

I think we are both going through a midlife crisis. I think that now that DC are older (10 and 12), I am finally beginning to be more aware of what I want. And that has caused some issues and differences. So we are now splitting.

I think two different people can live together happily, if they are prepared to accept each others differences and the foundation is sound, if there is respect and understanding. I don't have any of that in my relationship.

It seems I focused on points in your OP that were irrelevant but you posted a snapshot and then said we didn't have the complete picture so couldn't judge properly. That isn't really fair as what you described was a lazy, selfish bugger who gave no shit about you or his parents. However you say his good points outweigh the bad and the questions are:

Question is, does anyone else out there feel that there are very different people now to when they met their DP and if so how do you navigate growing older together without losing common ground? Can two very different people live in harmony together?

1. Yes I expect everyone does, including your DP
2. Show each other mutual respect and try to understand that you don't actually have to have common ground to have a good, solid relationship
3. Yes within the confines for 2 above

Well first and foremost i don't really think that political differences should matter at home - my DH is a bit of a Tory and we enjoy a debate once in a while (he is pro-remain so you can imagine how much I've taken the p1ss out of him for that) but i don't actually think he is a bad person, and neither of us is so insecure that we can't agree to differ.

I think if you secretly love the things about the other person which you pretend to judge (he likes that i'm a caring person; i quite like that he is economically conservative and not a total spendthrift) then you can turn these disagreements into the spice of life. It is generally the fitting together of our faults, not assets, that is the difference between dating and marriage.

If, however, your DH finds your development challenging, because it makes him feel insecure about his own accomplishments/education, then that is a bit more difficult. the best way to address that, I think, is to try to build his own confidence so he feels secure enough in who he is and not as if you are leaving him behind.

If there are third wire topics that drive him insane, maybe talk about them with others who want to discuss?

and I am not sure you really need to spend lots of time together every weekend for a marriage to be successful - sometimes it is healthier to have your own interests and not be in each others' pockets all day.

I met my husband when I was 19, I'm 46 now and we've been married for 24 years. In that time we've both changed hugely - in everyvway gou could imagine. We stay close by keeling the balance of having enough space - nights out, weekends away, holidays with friends etc and enough time together, we're not in each other's pockets and can respect the others viewpoint without needing to agree with it.

We are both respectful of the others privacy, we are a team at home in terms of children, housework, etc and are on each other's side first and foremost. There have been real times of tension but ultimately we've found our way through. It's possible to grow up together - hard work with lots of give and take - but it's possible.

I am in a similar relationship n time. We did grew up/old together in parallel. We do have common goals, plans and dreams.
We also changed our opinions at the same time, or I did and he followed suit.
Having a girl has made him fiercely feminist, even tho he grew up in an all female household and he had extremely healthy attitudes towards women. He would not tolerate everyday sexism and was involved in a incident putting someone back on his box for something other people thought it was 'small misdemeanor'.
His political views have become more liberal and kind even though he's one of those with wealthy family and not a care in the world growing up (except his parents amicable divorce).
The struggle of our gay friends and LGBT community made him don a rainbow tshirt and take the streets with everyone on Pride and then was Best Man at their ceremony.
I'm not facing your challenges in my relationship so I guess it's easier for me to speculate.
Mind you, you never know what the future brings. In my early 30's, I was so overwhelmed with my feelings of 'missing out' as we got together so young and never dated or tinder-ed or lived alone much that I nearly threw the towel in.

You never know.

SunEgg I'm sorry to hear of your struggles with your OH. Yes I am lucky in that although I know my DH has his faults (and I have mine) I do feel loved and secure in our relationship. When he acts in a way that comes across as selfish I wouldn't say I have come to terms with it; it does still irk/upset me, but I have accepted that it isn't born of spite or malice. It's a lack of thought and an inability to put himself in other people's shoes sometimes. I'm not condoning it at all, but it does make it easier. The man-child bit is a difficult one to overcome though. I know sometimes I end up doing things because it's easier/quicker but I was browsing some other threads the other day and came across a good anecdote where one woman made her DH say out loud "fuck you wife, this is your job" whenever he used something and then failed to tidy up after himself on the basis that it was the equivalent to him saying that her time was less valuable than his. Unsurprisingly to actually have to say it aloud soon made him stop! Perhaps you could try that! In short it's not acceptance but I have other reasons to love my DH as he has plenty of good qualities too. It sounds like your situation might be much more tricky, particularly when you say you don't feel loved?

Kimmyshmidt1 I think you might have misread my OP - I was making the point that he is conservative in the traditional sense of the word, not the political sense. To address your other point he is a very confident and capable person but I do think he feels caught off guard when I challenge him on certain things but his views are so entrenched that he's never really questioned them. Re the time at weekends thing I don't think I ever suggested that we should spend all our free time together, indeed that would drive me mad, but seeing as he works such long hours during the week and we are like ships in the night Mon-Fri I doubt we are going to build more common ground unless we make the effort to go out do something together at the weekend rather than sitting at home on our respective tablets. He sees his friends at weekends and I see mine, there's still plenty of time left over to make shared memories.

Henrysmycat your DP sounds like a wonderful, open minded man. How refreshing that he grew with you and developed such a healthy attitude and outlook on life.

@user1494426473 Thank you for responding, especially when this thread is about giving you advice and not the other way round. I find this part really interesting:

"When he acts in a way that comes across as selfish I wouldn't say I have come to terms with it; it does still irk/upset me, but I have accepted that it isn't born of spite or malice. It's a lack of thought and an inability to put himself in other people's shoes sometimes. I'm not condoning it at all, but it does make it easier. "

This is exactly the same as my DH. He doesn't do it out of spite, he just doesn't realise that he is being so selfish and that he is just all about 'what I want'. I have put up with it for very long, but he wants to have another baby (which I want to too), but the big problem is I don't think I can put up with his selfish behaviour which always becomes obvious when I am unwell or need his help.

With regards to feeling loved, I don't think he has the selfless nature in him to really love someone.

@user1494426473 I sometimes wonder whether my DH is on some spectrum? (he does have excellent social skills though although is too much of an introvert and wants his own space alot. He just can't see from another person's shoe nor take hints).

I could have written your post a year ago. every bit of it. including the still love him and not going to separate bits.
But he retired (v early) and we started spending more time together and I realised I didn't want to live with a selfish man-child for ever. SO I suggested counselling to sort things out, because I still loved him. And within 2 sessions it became clear that he wasn't ever going to change, saw the fact I had as the problem, and would be perfectly happy growing further and further apart for ever as long as I still let him fuck me 3 times a week.

We separated in December, he moved out in March and by August we were divorced. All relatively amicable for kids sake, even though I am still so hurt that he didn't appreciate the sacrifices I'd made for him over 25 years enough to make any effort to keep me when I was no longer his perfectly compliant and supportive wife. And I've never ever been happier.