To challenge the school policy on epi pens?

[GrandDesespoir]

I'd like to know what the advice is regarding whether children should carry their own epi pen, or whether it should be left in the medical office, possibly at some distance from the child.

I'm interested in either links to reputable websites, advice from medical professionals on best practice, or information on school policies (not simply laypeople's opinions).

Thank you.

As someone who has administered an epipen to a child in anaphylaxis, it is essential it is within reach at all times. Having a child in anaphylaxis in front of you, and knowing that it is the box on the shelf marked with a green cross is reassuring. Child needed both pens to make her transferable to hospital. It should not be 5 minutes away in an office, especially if that may be locked, and the key unobtainable....

A child's epipen should most definitely not be in a locked cupboard. It needs to be accessible.

DS is 10 and has two on him at all times. The teacher also has one on her desk.

They need to be with the child. In the classroom, in the hall for pe, lunch, assembly. if assemblies are in the hall where lunch was served and a child could be at risk- e.g. dairy or egg allergy child should not sit on floor either. on field at playtime. I suggest staff do a run through without children. The reality of a child collapsing , struggling to breathe, lifeless and floppy, and a class of 25 panicing children for a member of staff to leave them all and run to an office and back is adding critical minutes. Epi pens should be administered immediately. There is no safe time.

Panny, we did a run through, with a trainer, and it really is useful to see how people react... And how many people don't know where the boxes are
😕

look on allergy UK they have a whole section for schools.

Anywhere I've worked the rules for primary have always been that the epi pen is locked away in the first aid cupboard with the other controlled drugs

They are NOT controlled drugs. There are however, life saving drugs and in dire emergencies, seconds, and I mean, seconds can make all the difference.

I don't know much about epipens, but I do about asthma, I still remember picking my DD up from class having a severe asthma attack, my friend having to stay with her, hold her arms up and keep her calm whilst she tang the ambulance, meanwhile, I ran, and I mean ran, through the school to the office to get her inhalers. She should have been given her inhaler four hours before when she asked for it. But the teachers couldn't get out the class to get them from the office, and besides they weren't sure if my school loving DD was faking it or not

Any school which thinks an inhaler or an epipen are controlled drugs needs some serious retraining. For controlled drugs you're talking morphine or methadone. I'm going to hedge a bit there's not many users of either in a primary school.

The other big issue with keeping them in the office is that many times that relies on another child to go and get it.

One training day I done had a role-play. One person had to be the 7yo going to the office. When she arrived at the office Mrs Smith was talking to the Head Teacher and the Deputy Head and when she went to speak she was told to wait. The trainer then asked "Do you think a 6yo would interrupt these three people to ask for the pen?"

School policy changed that day.

That's good to hear you have had a run through Sadie. Should be routine like a fire practice. Hopefully people will never have to administer one. but what if they do and a child dies because the procedure wasnt really thought through.

6/7/8yo (you get the jist though)

5yo in primary has a bum bag with it in attached to him at all times.
Spare kept in classroom and office, help card and whistle kept in bumbag

The other big issue with keeping them in the office is that many times that relies on another child to go and get it.

The main issue is that they have to be accessible immediately. If they're in an office five minutes walk away. They're not.

I nipped into an Asda a a few months ago and noticed they had a defibrillator at the front entrance, with the security guard. I smiled as I was hoping this policy would be tweaked. Mainly because the last one I saw was outside a charity shop, locked up and you needed a code to access it. Someone trying to get hold of the code to access it isn't going to be much help for the person having a cardiac arrest in the nearby tescos who'd just popped in for some aspirin first thing in the morning.

I had an epi pen in my classroom for the child that needed it. Same as how I had snacks and sugary things for the child with diabetes and batteries for the child with a HI's equipment.

My dd doesn't currently have an epi pen (although I do carry own for my own allergies) as her allergies can be mostly avoided. However if it comes to a time where she needs one I would be going batshit of it wasn't within a 30 second distance of her.

An allergy that requires an epi pen can be fatal in under 2 minutes. 2 floors away and along a corridor is irresponsible. I would be challenging their safeguarding policy and requesting a gp letter.

You get the code for community defibrillators by calling 999 which is a good start in that situation regardless. They can then talk you through using it. It means it is accessible 24 hours.

They are quite straightforward, and have a voice to tell you what to do, so please do use them if needed. Don't worry that it would be too complicated.

The main issue is that they have to be accessible immediately. If they're in an office five minutes walk away. They're not.

I know, I already agreed with that. I was adding a secondary issue to the "it's only a minute away" arguments that many schools use (this particular school the office was as close to the classroom door as the teacher's desk so the head was adamant the office was a good store point)

Absolutely should be with the child. We had brownie (and then guide) who carried hers in a special handbag. It got places on the leaders table at the start of the meeting so everyone knew where it was. I am genuinely shocked that there are schools that would contemplate having them (and indeed inhalers) further than somewhere safe in the classroom or with the teacher if doing p.e.

At DDs school inhalers are put in a box in the classroom that is then taken with the class wherever they go. I don't know about epipens but as they generally will need to be administered quicker than an inhaler I should imagine the policy is the same.

In primary school my daughter had one kept in the classroom in a safe place designated by the teacher and one in the school medical room. This was because although she was mature enough to carry it herself (and did so outside of school from age 5) she could not be responsible for the actions & safety of other children. This was proved at dance class when a child went in her dance bag without her permission and was found messing about with the epipen in the changing room after removing it from the protective case (!). This was a 10 year old who should have known better than to take something medical from someone else's bag, not a young child. In secondary school she has always carried it herself as the school campus is just too big. She would need about 10 epipens in various locations around school, otherwise! I do think two floors away is quite far away though, is it possible to have one in the classroom and one in the usual (further away) medical facility?

I think children in a large secondary school should carry and be able to administer their own epi pens. However adults there should know the signs and which children carry an epipen, where spares are stored.
In the middle of an attack a child may lose the co ordination required.
In a Primary school they should be in the teachers desk or the dinner ladies/ playground supervisors pocket ( lunch us most likely time for anaphylaxis)
I think it's flexible though.

DD aged eleven has a friend in her class with numerous severe and potentially anaphylactic allergies. The child has an epipen in the office and one in the classroom in a bum bag with the child's picture on the outside and details of the child's medical issues with the pen inside. When they move around the school eg for music or PE, the bum bag goes into every room with the child. This has been the case for the child's entire primary school experience. The child is not asked to take responsibility for her epipen, it is the teacher's responsibility to make sure it follows the child around the school.

Does anyone know of any reason why a school would need or prescription label or pharmacy label to administer over the counter medication such as pirition? Is a parental consent form sufficient?

Teal our school insisted on it and my doctor got very annoyed when I asked him to prescribe Piriton so the school could have a label. He told me to tell the school he had better things to do with his time when it could be bought I've the counter . I had to agree tbh.

Does anyone know of any reason why a school would need or prescription label or pharmacy label to administer over the counter medication such as pirition? Is a parental consent form sufficient?

Basically to cover themselves. Schools will only give prescribed medication that needs to be given during the school day. They follow the label to the letter and that means they are covered.

If someone tells them "give Mary 10ml of this at break time" firstly you end up with people not bothering that they could be given before school, after school and before bed and also leaves the school open to being involved in giving a child medicine they don't need.

It's mostly to weed out the ones where it's not needed to be given during the school day and that is mostly a timing issue.

Thanks damediazepam and lalalalyra