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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Free school meals, so much waste!

71 replies

Twoweekcruise · 23/09/2017 10:48

I've recently started as a midday assistant at our local primary school.
I would say most days around 70-80% of the pupils have a school meal, obviously most of these are the free school meals offered by the government.
These meals look and smell delicious and are cooked by scratch by the cook and her assistant.
However, I have been taken aback by the amount of waste. Most of the children eat a tiny fraction of the food and then most of it gets thrown in the bin.
This must be happening all over the country and although I don't know what the answer to this would be, AIBU to think this is a shocking waste if food and of tax payers money?

OP posts:
womaninatightspot · 23/09/2017 11:35

I would say that if I was paying for DS's meals (he's free for another year) I would probably make a packed lunch on the days that I didn't think he'd really like a lot. I don't think I'm alone in that so I'm sure that free meals does contribute to the wastage is perhaps what the OP meant.

There is a lot of inflexibility though he'd cheerfully eat a lot of the sides rice/ peas/broccoli but isn't keen on the mains but everyone has to be given the same.

WorraLiberty · 23/09/2017 11:36

The school should be monitoring the waste and advising the cook to order less/cook less.

It's something that's included in inspections by the LA, although to be honest, LA's tend to have less and less to do with schools nowadays.

Twoweekcruise · 23/09/2017 11:37

Just to clarify, when I say free school meals, I am talking about the free meals scheme for reception, year 1 and year 2, which to my knowledge is available to ALL children in these age brackets. And I am not targeting anyone here I am talking about the general waste of a great deal of uneaten food.

OP posts:
RainyApril · 23/09/2017 11:40

The school meals at our school are awful. Tasteless food, tiny portions and generally overcooked too.

Some of the combinations are weird - yesterday was chicken nuggets with a pitta and sweet corn.

They claim to offer a choice but once the favoured option has gone, there is no choice.

They spoil acceptable meals by dumping something horrible on top and putting kids off.

But when you look at how many kids they're cooking for, and the budget per head, and the myriad of rules (about salt, sugar, fat content, portions of veg etc) I often wondered how they're even as good as they are.

Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 11:42

The thing is that the free school meals are a very recent innovation (Coalition govt), and they are meant to be a long term public health intervention - to expose young children to a good variety of healthy food is meant to encourage better eating and decrease chronic health problems over a lifetime.

Just think of the current huge (and growing) burden on the NHS caused by poor lifestyle choices and poor nutrition causing diabetes, obesity, heart disease, poor dental health and many other things. The vast majority of this has been caused by a lifetime of poor nutrition and poor food choices from the 1930s onwards. Many Baby Boomers have shocking health and poor teeth from very bad childhood nutrition which has long term health effects (my mum has only about 3 teeth left after being fed pretty much on rosehip syrup, sweets and boiled potatoes for most of her first decade!)

There is a lot of recent social health science showing that, for example, middle class and higher income children have better nutrition not just because it's a family choice (and more affordable for them), but because their families can afford the food waste at a crucial time when children are starting to learn and accept a variety of different foods. Children often need to be exposed to an unfamiliar food many times before they take to accepting it and eating it. For low-income families this means that they can't afford to be buying food that their kids might not eat just to expand their food repertoire. They need to focus on food they know the kids will eat. But higher-income families are more able to absorb the cost of the food waste and continue offering (say) broccoli for ten mealtime until the child starts eating it, and so on.

This tendency to be exposed to a greater range and variety of foods and more expensive, healthier foods means that higher-income children are getting a better nutritional start in life than low-income children. It's just one of many tiny, often imperceptible ways in which social inequality and disadvantage gets perpetuated. The free school meals is one attempt to change that, since children who might not be exposed to a wide variety of different meat and veg are getting that exposure at school even if their families can't afford to do it at home.

There are also "soft" social effects too in terms of all children sitting down to eat together, as a community, so social equality and community building is another aim of the meals.

Plus it helps economically for the school meals providers to commit to providing healthy, local, fresh food as they know how many children they will be providing for over a set amount of time. The hope is that by having the free infant meals, parents will then be keen to continue paying for them at junior level. The more sustainable the finning of them is, the better and healthier the product. Who would want to go back to the school meals of the 80s or 90s, all fried pizza and chips?

I personally think the long-term benefits of the free infant meals go well beyond a small amount of food waste now - why lock kids into packed lunches and very limited eating patterns for the sake of a small amount of public money? The amount spent on these meals is minuscule compared to the big taxpayer costs of pensions, healthcare, winter fuel allowance, free bus passes, and so on. Especially when you think that a small expenditure on infant school children now could help prevent a little of the massive healthcare costs of poor nutrition sixty years down the line.

If you are concerned, OP, why not ask if the portion sizes in your school could be reduced slightly?

astrotel · 23/09/2017 11:43

It's something that's included in inspections by the LA, although to be honest, LA's tend to have less and less to do with schools nowadays.

What inspection by the LA? LAs don't inspect schools and they certainly don't look at lunches. If the lunches are provided by LA caterers then the catering arm may quality assure the food occasionally.

Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 11:43

*funding not finning!

ZippyCameBack · 23/09/2017 12:06

The school meals at our local primary have improved a lot since my older kids were there, but my younger ones still eat very little of their meals. Partly this is because they want to get outside as quickly as possible, but (for the 5 year old especially) the real problem is that school gives them a snack at morning break. If they aren't actually hungry they won't eat at lunch but are ravenous at 3 o'clock. I've tried asking for them not to have the morning snack but apparently that isn't possible.

Twoweekcruise · 23/09/2017 12:07

wayfarer that may well be the governments intentions but from where I stand it isn't working. There isn't a huge variety of food offered, carrots and sweetcorn seem to be served on a daily basis, so I doubt very much this is going to improve the children's palate for variety. As for the baby boomers comment most of those I know are way way healthier than the young people I know, they tend to cook from scratch and don't drink a fraction of what younger people do, we are sitting on an NHS time bomb, if you think the baby boomers are costing the NHS a fortune, just wait a decade or two! And the 'small' amount of waste you talk of comes from the £600 million pounds the free school meals cost the government.

OP posts:
StripeyDeckchair · 23/09/2017 12:14

Govt food guidelines which schools have to abide by set portion sizes by age (so if you've a big 5yo they might always be hungry but a small one might find the portion too much) if portion sizes are the same across the school then that is down to the way the food is served, older children should have more.

Yes, bread with no butter is dry but that's what the guidelines state should be served (mind you many bake the bread in school daily and add stuff to the bread for variety to make it more palatable)

Catering companies are constrained by Govt guidelines which set out the amount of protein fat etc should be served to each age group.

Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 12:35

£600m is a tiny drop in the public budget. Old age pensions are over £120bn for starters.

You might know some healthy baby boomers, but I can assure you population health statistics don't bear this out! Alcohol consumption by boomers is much higher than for younger generations. And for every person who grew up in the 50s and 60s eating healthy food cooked from scratch, there are ten who grew up living on highly processed tinned food, potted meat sandwiches, cheap packet food, fried food and high white carb and sugar consumption. If you only knew relatively high income boomers then you might be duped into thinking that generation ate healthily: but the vast majority of working class families ate very very poor and limited diets. This is exactly what I'm talking about. If you're middle class you think the past was great. If you don't know much of working-class life or life in poverty during that period, you have very little awareness of what nutritional poverty means.

Unfortunately, there is a sort of social myth that people of the boomer generation grew up with healthy food, when in fact all the actual evidence shows that they have spent a lifetime eating high fat, high carb, high sugar diet, high in tinned and processed foods, poor quality meat, and diets low in veg.

I live in a wealthy city in the south of England and there is a fifteen year difference in average life expectancy between the richest council ward and the poorest. This in a first world country! And guess which ward sucks up all the spending on chronic and acute health problems such as diabetes, COPD, obesity, emergency dental care, etc., in the 55-85 age bracket?

If you don't think taxpayers should subsidise meals for infant schoolers, what is your solution to the public health crisis? As a taxpayer I'd rather be paying for infant school meals than for the massive human cost of healthcare for older people. Just the cost of providing diabetes care for people in later life dwarfs any spend on children's meals.

The meals in DD's school are great - healthy and tasty. Why not suggest to your school that they look at other providers?

Twoweekcruise · 23/09/2017 12:51

Your making big assumptions that I am middle class. Unfortunately, that's far from the case. I am working class and so are most of my friends and family. And of course the biggest cost to the NHS is from the 55+ age bracket but that's inevitable they are heading into older age when illness and disease is more likely. Can you give me some examples of the meals which are so popular at the school you mention? Maybe I can put this over to our headteacher.

OP posts:
Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 12:51

On alcohol, have a look at this link:
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/23/baby-boomers-problem-booze-dangers-drink

I work with young people (aged 18-22) and alcohol and drug consumption is actually pretty low and declining among this age group despite what the Daily Mail would have you believe. It's a big change in culture.

Some of the biggest current causes of death in the boomer and pensioner age groups are coronary heart disease, obesity, smoking and other lifestyle diseases.

I'm very happy that we try to change the food culture in some way for our young school children, to try in even a small way to avoid their lives being blighted by these diseases later on. It's not just about the economic cost, but the human cost.

Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 12:55

My DD's school uses the local council's catering company (most schools in this area do), and the meals vary from roast pork, bolognaise, salmon bites, mediterranean meatballs, beef hotpot, jacket pots and salad, homemade wholemeal pizza, amongst others - with bread baked in school and a selection of two different vegetables each day. Puddings are fruit and yoghurt, crumble, fruit tarts, home made fruit muffins, and so on. They really are delicious (the caterer occasionally does a presentation for parents and brings some of the food and it really is lovely!)

SparklyUnicornPoo · 23/09/2017 12:55

There is so much waste. Although less now that the kitchen staff at my school don't plate up the same for everyone, the kids pick which bits they want and how many scoops for the sides and they have a set portion of the main bit depending on year group. We've also this term decided that no one can leave the table til x time (varied by year groups) so no one rushes because their friends have gone out to play which is working from our view and cutting down on waste but some of the parents don't like it.

Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 13:00

I'm in my late 30s and come from a northern working-class background, and all my grandparents and older relatives (on a northern city council estate) ate atrociously all their lives - poor quality scraggy meat stews with Smash, Fray Bentos pies, potted meat spread on spongy white bread, fried foods, tined Spam, endless cheap biscuits and Mr Kipling's cakes. the only fruit on offer was tinned in syrup. They also had a lot of aversions to trying new food and "foreign" foods and uniformly ended up with diabetes and other health issues (COPD, heart disease, and dementia - which many doctors now believe is linked to poor nutrition) - and this was the same for all their friends. It definitely wasn't the nirvana of home-cooked food that many would have you believe!

nightgap · 23/09/2017 13:02

the portion size is set by The Foods Standards Agency so must be followered . Also when you have to serve 150 small children and also allow time for them to eat the food, you are under pressure to get them through the counter quickly. If every child was given too much choice it would be a lunch day and not a lunch hour. It may look like a lot of waste, however the cost of the food on the plate is all worked out to a set budget.

MrsOverTheRoad · 23/09/2017 13:04

Wayfairer well I'm also Northern and working class and of the same generation....we ate nothing like you describe and neither did my friends.

We ate plain but good food. Pies and roasts, basic garden salads, fish on Fridays and the odd pudding along with seasonal fruit.

Nobody was very well off either. Tinned and convenience foods were limited to the odd tin of sardines or peas and an arctic roll now and then.

allofthestress · 23/09/2017 13:09

The food at my son's infant school is excellent. There's a real mix of foods on offer, and dessert is fruit or yoghurt, apart from twice a week when they have a cake or flapjack type thing.
We order in advance via an app so they know what they're getting, and there's a choice of meat/fish or veggie every day as well as jacket potato option.
There's very, very little waste and all but 3 or 4 kids have the school lunches.

Grimbles · 23/09/2017 13:11

My grandparents are a lot of processed tinned food as well, ham, spam, corned beef, stews and so on.

Dessert always had half a can of condensed milk poured over it or was something really sweet and sickly like angel delight or blancmange.

SparklyUnicornPoo · 23/09/2017 13:18

There isn't a huge variety of food offered, carrots and sweetcorn seem to be served on a daily basis, so I doubt very much this is going to improve the children's palate for variety.

Are carrot and sweetcorn the only veg options though? we tend to have tomato on the salad cart and cooked carrots and sweetcorn on the main bit as a staple every day because we ask the children periodically what their favourites are and those are the most popular options, we then vary the other options so they have a familiar option and a bit of variety. (lasagne, fish and chips, curry and chilli are the most popular main meal choices by the way)

GhostsToMonsoon · 23/09/2017 13:25

When I had a school lunch with DD recently I thought the portions were tiny. Maybe OK for a 4yo, but I was hungry again by 2pm and plenty of the older children are taller than me.

There isn't any planning in the sense that the meals don't have to be booked in advance, so presumably they over-cater.

From an environmental perspective the waste is shocking. All drinks and puddings are served in disposable plastic cups so a huge amount of waste is produced each day.

FenceSitter01 · 23/09/2017 13:28

Those querying portion sizes, complaining they are too small - this is why there is an obesity crisis - we are an over fed nation. Dare I hark back to the (post) war years where rationing was in full swing, no one starved to death on the government rations, which were calculated for healthy diet ratios.

No one needs piled high plates.

www.worldwar2facts.org/world-war-2-rationing.html

Bluelonerose · 23/09/2017 13:31

Sparklyunicornpoo that is a fantastic idea defiantly going to ask at my kids school

Wayfarersonbaby · 23/09/2017 13:32

Mrs I ate well as a child (school dinners were horrible though - am still wondering if I'll get BSE); but my point is that my grandparents and parents didn't eat well growing up (or in my grandparents' case, for most of their lives). Food for most people in the 40s, 50s, 60s and 70s was not great at all, and that's a huge part of why that generation have so many health problems, particularly amongst lower-income and working class communities.

I'm not really sure how anyone could argue that this isn't true, by the way? Is there some magical other Britain I'm missing where lower-income over-50s are the healthiest people in the country rather than being the population sector with the overwhelmingly highest rates of chronic lifestyle diseases?

I'm really pleased that we have some signs of a more sensible public health policy on school nutrition emerging. Whatever you think of Jamie Oliver (and most of the time I think he's a smug git Grin), he did a great thing putting this on the national agenda. I'm more than happy for taxpayers to pay for it. With same-sex marriage it could be the high point of the Coalition government - their only two vaguely progressive policies. If there's a lot of food waste in your school, OP, why not look into a better provider instead?