Aibu to think I should be ok to exercise my well behaved dog wherever I like in fields

[Scrowy]

I'm not BU because my dog is a farm dog and the fields are my fields.

Sadly however the local dog owners seem to think that our fields (some with footpaths, some without) are fair game and that they have an equal right to use them as they see fit.

This week we have politely asked 6 people with loose dogs to remove themselves from the pasture we have just separated some lambs into. There is no footpath in that field but it has a nice view.

During lambing time this year we lost 4 lambs and 1 sheep to sheep worrying. About 5 years ago one dog killed 24 lambs in one go. Every week we are aware of minor incidents of sheep worrying, fortunatly most don't result in death but do always result in stress on the animals.

Also this week we have sent some older sheep to slaughter. Out of 30 of them 24 of them were condemned due to Echinococcosis, a disease passed on to sheep from dog poo and only identifiable at slaughter.

Neosporosis is another disease passed on from dog poo do cattle. It causes the cattle to abort their calves.

Letting your dogs poo on farmland is directly putting farms out of business.

Letting your dogs 'play' with sheep causes death, even if your dog doesn't actually maul something at the time.

You wouldn't walk into a shop, knock down a display and break stuff without expecting to have to pay for damages. Why do people think that the countryside is fair game?

I'm all for live and let live, I want people to enjoy the countryside and support it. I also want people to realise that it's not just there for their amusement, that some people are trying to make (an increasingly small and desperate) living from it.

I honestly am disgusted to read people stating that they don't pick up after their dogs, like just because it's a field it's not revolting to leave dog shit behind. Even if there are no cows or sheep around, no matter what, pick it up and take it home. You ought to be very ashamed.

I still think my idea that I will implement if i'm ever grand supreme leader would work.

All dogs have to be licensed + chipped. Any unlicensed dogs are destroyed (after the transitional period).

Licenses costs £1k, however will have a transnational 1 year period where it is £100 for the first 6 months, then £500.

All dogs DNA tested. Any dog poo found gets DNA tested. Dog owner gets £1000 fine for first offense, £5000 for second offense and dog is destroyed on third offense.

Hi OP I emailed Countryfile to see if they would be interested in doing something on this as a future storyline.

Frillyhorseyknickers - yes yes a million times yes! Also an agent and you are spot on, nothing worse than an armchair 'conservationist' 😠

5rivers7hills - You actually make one reasonable point if your caught leaving your dogs poo it should be an unlimited fine. I'm also ok with dog licenses.

But why is it that in your opinion only people with a lot of money behind them can have a dog?

I'm a perfectly responsible dog owner if your licenses came in I wouldn't be able to have a dog! Why if I'm completely responsible should I not be able to have a dog because I can't pay the absurd fees you are suggesting?!

Hi OP, I've been thinking about your problem.

With regards to the woods I would string www.amazon.co.uk/TopSoon-Warning-Non-adhesive-70mmX200m-Polyethene/dp/B01MZ5RNCP/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1506369020&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=Hazard+tape&psc=1&tag=mumsnetforum-21 all the way along the path, on both sides. I'd then put up notices every few meters (at least some laminated so the rain doesn't ruin them and brightly coloured) saying:

KEEP OUT
Private Property

KEEP OUT
Rich Of Way for path ONLY

STAY ON PATH

Yes, some idiot will tear them down eventually. And it won't physically stop people going in the wood (they, and you, can duck underneath) but no one can claim to be uninformed.

You could do similar for your fields, adding in dogs on lead and pick up after dogs but you would need to buy poles (you can attavh to trees on the wood) and I don't know if there would be a danger of animals knocking poles over and spiking themselves or eating the tape?

Incidentally I do stick and flick but I'm careful where. I walk in a woodland trust wood and will flick into thick undergrowth that no human could get into and throw the stick in afterwards. Two slugs or a bit of rain later and it's gone. As opposed to the two bags I saw yesterday handing from as tree - one has been present at least a week (I was going the wrong way our I'd have picked them up). It might annoy a mouse if I flick onto them but certainly won't affect anyone else. Would never do it on a field.

What a lot of manure on this thread.

Seems to me too many lobbyists for farmers are using diversionary tactics by moaning about a little dog poo and busily ignoring the tonnes of greenhouse gas, methane, their livestock produces whilst munching the grass reserved for the pleasure of us Common Folk.

And for the sake of honesty, can people refrain from lumping the livestock farmers with the crop farmers (some do both, but most of us who might accept crop farmers can survive perfectly adequately without the other livestock-type, common-land scroungers who breed animals for profit and slaughter).

Whilst we're at it, I think farmers who use barbed wire fencing should pay back all those EU subsidies they scrounged.

A Llama is the answer. One would see off any dog!

Too serious to ignore, yet I'm sure some overpaid farmer will get one of their propaganda merchants to post some inanity to obscure this:

"It is now critical that agricultural use of antibiotics be recognized as one of the major contributors to the development of resistant organisms that result in life-threatening human infections and included as part of the strategy to control the mounting public health crisis of antibiotic resistance."

National Institute of Health - A Review of Antibiotic Use in Food Animals: Perspective, Policy, and Potential.

FFS Counter we do not live in USA and their is a difference between commoners and common people. The EU has done loads to keep meat produced like this out of Europe.

there

counterpoint I hear you and I admire your conviction, I believe no matter what anybody says you will not be swayed but your views are so black and white. Isn't all of the food you eat farmed in some way or other, from personal experience I have been to many of the worlds rain forests and seen great swathes of them flattened, burnt for the purpose of palm sugar and soya growing, are not rain forests the lungs of the world and each acre burned you are losing so much the cure for many diseases. I'd rather eat a cow or a sheep than eat anything with palm sugar in it.

What are you talking about and who is living in the USA? Common people or bacteria (maybe to a farmer there's no difference)?

I'm puzzled: do American bacteria behave differently to British bacteria? Are British bugs a hardier breed, ooohh arrgh?

If one crop is removed to grow another crop that is called crop rotation and has been practiced for millennia. It's generally beneficial.

Crops produce oxygen!!!!

However, if one crop is removed and replaced with cows and sheep then we are in trouble!

Eat what you like, but don't patronize me that you are doing it for some greater good.

I think counterpoint because you are quoting articles from the National Institute of Health (NIH) which is in the USA, not the UK?

Counte the article is about American farming practices, which are a little very different to UK ones. British animals need to have antibiotics prescribed by the vet, just like people do. Most British farmers do not aspire to be like Americans.

So, like I said, are the bacteria that develop antibiotic resistance different in the USA to those in the UK? The problems are the same. For over three decades I have followed the overuse of antibiotics in the British farming industry and we are leaders in bad-farming practices (even without the forced exposure from foot&mouth and BSE).

If, for example, they discover a new cure in the USA, will you say, " no thank you, we are British" ?

Problem with such research being done here in the UK is the strength of the lobbying by farmers drowning out voices of dissent (as demonstrated right here on this thread). USA is bad too, but we seem to think our farmers are fluffy, floppy bunnies (when in actual fact they are more like bunny-boilers!).

Counterpoint have you even read the large number of posts on this thread explaining that "Commoners" has 2 meanings, and when talking about common land the term specifically refers to people who have Commoners Rights over that land and NOT everyone (aka The Common People) e.g. in the New Forest only certain people have the right to graze their ponies on that land, these people care called Commoners or Verderers.

Common land doesn't mean publicly owned land, it means land that is owned but certain people have rights. Try here or here for detailed explanations.

I also suggest that you may like to do some research on the profitability (or otherwise) of different types of farms. As I said above (having done a bit of research before posting) that unless you are one of the "big boys" then farming isn't great for incomes.

Oh and please don't try to equate the destruction of virgin rainforest to grow pasm oil or soya with crop rotation! Crop rotation needs to be done very carefully to balance the various minerals used or produced by different crops - and they still tend to use animal manure to fertilise, and to include grazing in with the rotation.

So which crops will you be rotating on steep hillsides then counter? The kind of places that haven't ever been suitable for arable farming.

Remember that teams of ill informed tree hugging townies armed with trowels, a pack of seeds and garden shears, crawling through the hills isn't going to be economically viable, so do share the logistics as to how you plan to do this large scale in an environmentally friendly way.

For those who prefer British bacteria to American bacteria:

Antibiotic use in farm animals 'threatens human health'
"Farmers need to dramatically cut the amount of antibiotics used in agriculture, because of the threat to human health, a report says," according to BBC News.
The concern is agricultural antibiotic use is driving up levels of antibiotic resistance, leading to new "superbugs"
NHS.UK.

For the straw man generators:

You don't need to grow crops on every hillside. Just leave them be, wild and free, and stop your sheep munching every blade down to the roots!

Hi OP. With regards to your original post - YANBU re people on your exclusively owned land. Good for educating people.

With regards to newer posts you mention common wood land the general public use - they are entitled to do so since the Countryside and Rights of Way Act 2000 gave the public the Freedom to roam freely on all registered common land in England and Wales.

HOWEVER - they should still be careful of livestock and pick up their poo! Simples!

Allergic, please refer to HM.GOV.UK to find your answers if you are unsure about what is common land and who are common people (like you) and how they live (to paraphrase a song).

@Raizel high licenses to cover the cost of the DNA testing and records of the dog, and all the extra 'dog wardens' testing the dog poo.

I admit it's not an entirely well thought out policy ;-) Maybe I could charge a sliding scale depending on how responsible I deemed he owner to be? Might have to delegate that task to a trusted advisor whilst I'm off implementing other policies!

I really envy the French farmers, for their ability to band together for a better deal. I don't think UK farmers are actually very good at lobbying at all really. Lots of diverse opinions!

Great to keep the debate going though and raise awareness of important issues along the way.

I'm delighted that so many dog owners are more aware now of the dangers to sheep & cows from loose dogs and dog poo on farmland, from reading this thread.