To not be blamed when I can't remember petty lies people want me to tell?

[CherryChasingDotMuncher]

My mum lives abroad and is coming over for a visit next month. We live close to her dad, my grandad. They have a weird relationship, he’s 84 and really seems to get on her nerves, she says she can’t stand him. They don’t have an overtly bad relationship as far as I’m aware, and he’s done a lot for her over the years (such as bought her houses and cars). To me he’s not a bad guy in the least, we are very close, he overshares his ailments a bit but that just part and parcel of being elderly?

Anyway, she told me that she’s not telling him that she’s coming over. She might contact him when she’s here she says. Which TBH makes it a bit awkward for us as we see him twice a week, it would feel odd to have my mum staying, then to go over to grandad’s and not mention anything.

We went for a meal with him tonight and DH let slip that Mum is arriving next month. I hadn’t told him that she was keeping it a secret from him.

I text mum to warn her that grandad knows and she’s flew off the handle! Says that now she’ll have a long list of things she’ll be expected to do, that he’ll want to spend a couple of days with her etc and that I can’t be trusted to keep secrets.

TBH it’s not a ‘secret’ I wanted to keep, it was a lie I was expected to be part of. I can’t stand being asked to keep petty little things from people, things that don’t matter, and I forget who is supposed to know what (Mum is terrible for this). AIBU to think it’s not my fault that this ‘secret’ got out?

Secrets are used for many purposes in a relationship, Sonja. In this case information is used as currency to buy intimacy with the OP and probably others too).

The reason is to enmesh the OP, form a 2 against 1 scenario, interfere in the relationship between the OP and her grandfather, and in general, to gain and use power in the relationship.

The OP can and must stop the cycle - and yes, it is sometimes uncomfortable when someone who has been transgressing boundaries (the mother in this case, by using information as currency) must be held at arms length, but that only shows how unhealthy the relationship has been.

Btw, I would not stand for my gd telling my dh off for petty stuff. That needs knocking on the head!

My grandad didn’t tell him off, he just said “oh lovely”, I guess he assumes she’s only just booked her flights.

* Yeah I guess if I was your mum I'd feel a bit upset that you were discussing me with someone you knew I didn't get on with and would be wondering why the conversation was about me at all IYKWIM*

We’re not discussing a neighbour or acquaintance, we’re discussing my Mum/his daughter. And by ‘discussing’ he mentioned the birthday present he ordered her has arrived and he said it’s too big to post so he’ll just give it to her whenever she’s next here. At which point DH said “she’s coming next month”.

Yeah I guess if I was your mum I'd feel a bit upset that you were discussing me with someone you knew I didn't get on with and would be wondering why the conversation was about me at all IYKWIM.

Normally I would agree with this but it is her mother's father, not just anyone! And by the sounds of it he doesn't even know that his own daughter doesn't really like him. It's perfectly natural for him to ask "oh have you heard from your mum lately?" And for OPs DH to then say "oh yeah she's coming to stay with us soon actually". Nothing sinister in it!

No it's not your fault at all. I notice your mum was quite happy for you to lie by omission on her behalf yet was reserving the option to contact him once she arrived, if she felt like it. Which from your grandads POV would make it obvious that you deliberately kept this visit from him.

I really hate this crap, my parents do it all the time. It's always "don't mention such a thing to such a body" only to go off and bloody tell such a body anyway, making it obvious that I knew. I end up looking like the weirdo who went out of my way to keep some random thing secret for no good reason! Why do people do this, does it make them feel important or more interesting in some way?

How often does she come over? It's odd to not visit an elderly parent who is not toxic.

She should also manage her relationship like an adult, the adult thing to do would be to tell her DF that she is t visiting him this time. If she can't bring herself to do that, she needs to ask herself why.

It's totally unfair of her to push the disfunction of the relationship on to you.

Yanbu at all. You are not obliged to be complicit in her deceit.

Yes there is triangulation going on but it might not all be coming from the mother, the GF may be getting at his daughter by painting a picture to the OP that he's the doting father IYKWIM and if that were the case then the mum is actually the better person by saying "just stay out of it and don't discuss me with my dad"

Why was it necessary for you to hear all about your grandfathers gifts, someone wants you to believe that he is the generous innocent party in this tricky mother-father relationship and it might not be the whole story. Since your mum sounds less invested in convincing you that she is a doting daughter (i.e. "take my side its all him) and is just asking you to not be a go between, I wonder if shes not actually the one putting you in the middle of things

I think if someone expressed the view point that they couldn't stand one of their parents even without knowing the reason I would respect that.

People do not tend to just hate their parents for no reason

Pinklemepopcorn the OP does not know whether her GF is toxic to her DM or not. It is not unusual for toxic parents to put on a good generous/doting parent act to other people to make their adult child look unreasonable! Now we don't know that that IS happening, we also don't know that it's not.

OP can you just keep the two separate and agree not to discuss either of them with the other from now on? That's not deceitful but it would allow you to have a relationship with both of them, and then if there IS any triangulation going on from either of them they won't get to use you against each other

Of course you are not being unreasonable.

On the one hand you should have told your dh it was a secret but I agree with mathanxiety.

IMHO your mum should stand up to him and tell him she is coming, see him briefly and whatever else she wants to do, but not expect you to keep secrets. And it was your dh who said it anyway!

If my mother hears that I am visiting any other family members, I'll arrive and she will be there! She does not allow me to have a relationship with anyone else in the family independently of her. Once there, she will go for the jugular when out of earshot of the others, then act the sweet old lady once they're back in the room. This way I come across as grumpy and surely and don't get to be myself around other family members. She also paints herself as more financially generous than she actually is (and I ve learnt not to take anything from her as she only gives to me as a means of control).

She's out me in a position where I can't see other family members be because it I specify "don't tell DM we're meeting" I'm the bad guy! But it's "DM" who has manipulated my relationship with other family members.

I would love to see more of them but how? Maybe your mum just wanted to see YOU without her being on edge about your dad crashing in on it, which she now cant do and is gutted hence the phone outburst

Im not projecting here just presenting it as a possibility.

a truthful person (who speaks the truth in a loving way) is someone to aspire to be, and someone to be treasured. such a nice way of expressing it. Truthful people are worth their weight in gold and a truthful person with tact is even better.

For my part, I have some personal stuff/secrets that I don't want sharing with my wider family. I'd really love to share them with my parents but I can't trust them not to tell others - they seem to take great delight in carefully filling each other in, in a "just so you know" cos-kindness sort of way. I don't want to fall out with them so I simply don't tell them. It's hard when I can't share and get their perspective but if I don't want others to know I have to set my own boundaries.

* It's odd to not visit an elderly parent who is not toxic.*

I know! She’s over maybe once every 9 months.

As far as I can see he’s not toxic but then I’ve never been privy to their entire relationship. My mum, in fact, can be very toxic, I nearly went NC recently but we’re working through our problems, but things like this don’t help!

* Why was it necessary for you to hear all about your grandfathers gifts, someone wants you to believe that he is the generous innocent party in this tricky mother-father relationship and it might not be the whole story*

It was just general chit chat TBH but I can see where you’re coming from. He didn’t say it in a boasting way but then again I’m looking at him the way other people probably look at my Mum, like that person couldn’t possibly be nasty/toxic.

I haven’t apologised, nor will I, I responded to her message about not trusting me by saying I’m more than happy to not be part of the lying anymore.

Bloody bold fail! Sorry!

Well your mum sounds far from perfect but I would also be suspicious of someone who presents themselves as flawless as nobody is! And people who manipulate others don't outright say "take my side because I'm generous" it's more of a subtle drip drip to make

Now maybe your mum wants to drive a wedge between you and your GF by making you devieve him
Maybe your GF is doing a good job at subtly making sure you don't have an independent relationship with your DM
All you know for sure is that this is not a healthy father-daughter relationship, so regardless of what's really going on behind the scenes between them both I think it would be a good policy from your point of view to stop talking about your mum with your gf and make sure you spend time with her separately when she visits. This would allow them BOTH to haves a relationship with you regardless of whatever is going on between them

I don't think you owe her an apology, but perhaps reassure her that her visit is a priority for you and you will make time JUST for her and you r GF doesn't have to be involved in your specific plans. That's not deceptive, you don't need to tell your Gf the specifics of your plans. If he asks just say " mother daughter stuff" and change the subject

Another example of triangulation (thanks for links BTW that’s very helpful!) is last year when mum very briefly left her husband, came back to UK , then went back to be with him after 3 months.

When she first came back she rented a small flat (with the intention of buying a house later), she had a few boxes shipped over, and she put them in our attic. However she didn’t want my grandad knowing where they were in case he went snooping. which is nigh on impossible, he is frail so never comes to us we always go to him, and even if he was at our house, we only have a small ladder so DH has to do a flying trapeze act to get in the attic (I’ve never been in I can’t get in it) no way grandad would make it (and there’d be no reason to let him up there). I did tell her this at the time but it fell on deaf ears.

Anyway, grandad somehow knew about this shipment and Mum told him that she was storing the boxes in my MIL’s (non existent) garage. I didn’t tell my MIL this.

Fast forward a few months later, Mum is back with her DH abroad, and MIL invites us and my grandad over for Christmas dinner. He notices she lives in a terraced house and asks if the garage is off-site. When she says she doesn’t have a garage he asked how she stored my mum’s boxes. My MIL was like I tried to be quick and say Mum meant Step-MIL. More lies, but I didn’t know what else to say.

I do now wonder if there’s a lot I don’t know about their relationship. I guess the best toxic people cover it from others! I won’t instigate conversation about one to the other anymore but I refuse to be part of anyone’s lies, it just stresses me out.

That's fair enough. I am very wary of what my mother knows about me as you would be AMAZED at the innocuous things she has managed to twist and use against me. I don't ask other to lie but the result is that I can't really have a normal relatiinship with anyond who she also knows.

Your Gf does seem to bring up your DM in conversation a lot in ways that catch her out & make her look unreadonable. Maybe these are all innocent coincidences, thats very possible, but Still sounds like a lot of trouble follows your GF mentioning your DM in conversations, so avoiding the topic is still wise either way!

If my mother hears that I am visiting any other family members, I'll arrive and she will be there! She does not allow me to have a relationship with anyone else in the family independently of her. Once there, she will go for the jugular when out of earshot of the others, then act the sweet old lady once they're back in the room. This way I come across as grumpy and surely and don't get to be myself around other family members. She also paints herself as more financially generous than she actually is (and I ve learnt not to take anything from her as she only gives to me as a means of control).

Know exactly where you're coming from TinselTwins

There is absolutely the possibility that both the grandfather and the mother are playing tug of war here with the OP in the middle. It's quite likely actually, because people don't start up triangles out of the blue.

Either way, the OP can walk out of it and insist that the two of them deal directly with each other and not try to involve her any more. The best way to do this is the broken record method of telling someone you are sorry they feel that way every time they try to tangle you up in their complicated lives.

Yup, whoever is/isn't the manipulated here the end result is GF bringing up DM in conversation results in shut hitting the fan, whether she's putting him on the spot or he's manipulating other people's opinions of her, whatever the reason, talking about her around him = bad news!

Broken record method WORKS
"Should I post DD s gift"?
" Give her a ring grandad"
"Wasn't DD storing her stuff with MIL?"
" ring her and ask her grandad"e
and so on..

and so on, youre not lying your just removing yourself from the triangle

And if it's your mum who is doing the stirring this'll also work

"If your grandad asks x say y"
"Okay, if he asks about you I'll tell him to ring and ask you directly himself"

Makes it clear that you won't partake in games without taking sides

Hmm. I do understand the hassle of 'keeping secrets' but in this case the OP's mother said she was coming over but don't tell X, then the OP told her DH that her mother was coming over but not the second half of the message. That does look deliberate.

It's a difficult situation because you see more of X than your mother in this case, so it's probably a case of split loyalties. Also, I think it's not the best way to let X (your grandfather) know that your mother is coming over and hasn't told him by hearing it from your DH.

Next time your mother suggests this OP, I'd say straightaway that you will not do it. You already want to do this and I think it would be for the best all round.