To ask you how you breast feed (post TT)?

[Meowstro]

My 7 week old baby had her tongue tie division on Wednesday by a private LC after painful breastfeeding. Thankfully the pain has gone and I am so grateful but there's still issues! I was aware we'd need to relearn how to do it because she's picked up bad habits but I can't for the life of me get her to take in enough of the areola to latch properly, I have to kind of push enough in but she slides back on to just past the nipple which has left a ring around where she always attaches. The clicking sound is driving me insane meaning she's not latched properly. I've got big boobs so I know she'll struggle, positioning was said to be fine and we adopt the cradle hold.

If I hand express, for me to get anything out, it's so far back up my areola that she'd never fit all of that in her mouth!

AIBU to be frustrated by the fact we're still having issues? (I'd never show it.) What on earth can I do?

My DS had a front and back tongue tie and I fed bf full time for 5 days of ridiculous pain. We then had to give as much expressed milk as possible and the rest formula because he wasn't getting enough from me and it was horrendously painful.
We had his done privately after the NHS waiting list was too long. He had it done at around 2 weeks old. We had a pain-free first feed and then he seemed to go backwards and it started to become painful again. At the time we were told he had a hard top palete that would soften in time but it seemed like that was the problem.
We saw an NHS tongue tie specialist at a breastfeeding clinic who said to just relax, slouch abit when sitting, put your baby in the centre of your chest above your breasts, and literally let your baby scoot down, find the nipple themselves and latch on themselves however they like. It may not be a technically perfect latch, infact it looked too shallow to me but it felt right. Also, once he was on, she suggested pushing more of my breast into his mouth which helped. And as time went on, he just learnt how to latch better with more and more practice.
It's so heartbreaking when it feels like you're going backwards again and I know how painful it is. But things really seemed to change for us when we let my son lead instead of the other way round xx

OP have you called the person who treated for advice? They absolutely should be your first port of call.

It can take a while to improve, it was s good week each time for us. For a deeper latch Google 'flipple' technique, exaggerated latch and rugby hold, they can all hell in the short term.

And to the posters who haven't had babies with TT who are skeptical, just do one. Seriously.

I agree with those saying see a lactation consultant if you can. Mine got us to do this latch, and I must have watched this video about 9 million times m.youtube.com/watch?v=7FJuBn2bgNk they do have to relearn how to latch properly after tt in my experience, and it can take time. Getting the latch right is absolutely key - try to stay relaxed while you're doing it, that will help. A pp has linked to some post snip exercises - we were also given these and they did help.

My DS had a tt that was snipped at 9 days old - by which point I was exclusively expressing as he'd caused so much damage to my nipples, I couldn't feed him without crying in agony. I echo the pp who said it was worse than labour in many ways. I've never known pain like it. Not just on the outside but deep inside. The first time I expressed it was pure blood. It took us a good 4/5 weeks to go back to just breastfeeding - a combination of my nipples healing and DS relearning how to bf properly. I am at the poster who doesn't believe in to tongue tie. Yes, for many women the early stages of bf are very painful, but there's a difference between that and having a baby literally clamping his bony gums down on your nipple and pulling because he physically can't use his tongue to do it. Plus the fact that they generally aren't getting nearly enough milk. I had to work super hard to rebuild my supply because even in those 9 days pre snip, it was dropping off a cliff. Once DS's tongue tie was snipped and I had a proper pumping schedule, and we gradually got back to just bf, the difference was incredible. It was still quite painful for a little while, but NOTHING like the pain beforehand. The pain pre snip was genuinely toe-curling-trying-not-to-scream-in-agony pain.

DS is now nearly 2, and I'm almost 9 months pregnant. He's still breastfeeding (only once a day now) and once we were all sorted and got the hang of bf we didn't look back. Just to offer you some hope OP that it can be done.

Haven't rtft but two things helped me after DD had her TT sorted, also at 7 weeks.

1. Hand expressing a little into a muslin before feeds to make the nipple more flexible. If your boob is engorged and hard like a balloon, even if they get a good mouthful they will slide off to just the nipple when they start to suck, especially while the mouth is still small.

1. Tickling her nose with my nipple to make her open wide, then shoving in as much as poss by sort of rolling the boob in over her chin. Nipple ends up pointing towards the roof of her mouth and fairly far back.

It's hard to describe bf techniques so maybe get down to a local bf support group and ask one of those ladies to demonstrate with one of the knitted boobs they all seem to carry

Id definitely try and see someone in person if you can. Getting the right latch can be difficult on your own.

I've had two tt babies, both divided at a few weeks old. It helped but wasn't a magic cure.

Proper breastfeeding pillows
Rugby ball hold
Tickle nose with nipple
Burger pinch and shove as much in as you can! As long as your nipple is deep enough to avoid the hard pallet it won’t hurt

Don’t be afraid to break the seal and relatch

Just seconding the flipple and deep latch technique and yes to looking on YouTube. I found feeding lying down easiest initially after as I had a bit more control over positioning etc.

DS was 19 (yes, nineteen 😮) weeks when he had his posterior tongue tie divided. I was in bits, my nipples were bruised, bleeding and mangled and I was utterly and completely on my knees with a baby who was feeding continuously but never satisfied. After the division it probably took a week or so for him to relearn how to feed. He still clicks sometimes. He's 10 months and still feeding.

Congratulations on your new baby!

Not a tt but it took a month to get ds1 to feed easily. The biggest thing that help was nipple shields as they made him open his mouth wide enough.
They suggested you use Vaseline to stop them sticking and hurting- I found this made them slide around, make a mess and make it more difficult.

All of your suggestions are so helpful! Special thanks to @Monikita and @ohpleasesleepbabysleep. The flipple technique is just not working, DD just unlatches so I'm putting as much breast in as possible with an exaggerated latch.

Going to see the local breastfeeding support group and also contact the LC who did it on Monday.

As the health visitor didn't refer us nor offer any reason why DD wasn't gaining weight, they suggested formula top ups which I started before diagnosis. Did anyone notice mixed feeding confused babies post TT?

My tongue tie baby fed successfully after it was snipped with a nipple shield. He never got the hang of it without and despite everyone telling me how terrible it was to feed with a nipple shield for more than a day or two he fed happily with one until I moved on to formula when he was 6 months. Might be worth a try - even briefly. If you do pretty much the only decent brand is medela. Good luck

Did anyone notice mixed feeding confused babies post TT?

I was told by the LC and BF peer supporter to not introduce bottles to a baby who already has a 'lazy latch' because it will just make things worse and encourage lazier latching at the breast. I had asked about it because I'd been concerned about how well my DS had been transferring milk and so was querying wether I needed to give top-ups.

I also struggled with the flipple technique OP and I just try and shove as much breast in DS's mouth as I can when he opens wide.

I also find that when he's latched on properly I hold my hand against his head and hold him really tightly against my body to make him stay in the right position, I.e not suddenly lose his latch, and then when he starts feeding effectively I release my hold on him a little. I also lean back whilst feeding (depending on where I am) so we're sort of in the biological nursing position because this also encourages a deeper latch and because gravity is pushing him down on to the breast it helps to maintain their latch.

Both my DSs had tongue tie, both had it snipped very young (less than 2 weeks) and they still took a few weeks to completely lose the clicking and sort the latch. They start learning to use their tongues in the womb: even if they're tiny they have a lot of re-learning to do. YY to real life support.

As to the prevalence of TT, my understanding is that it is thought to be becoming more prevalent (though the data isn't good). I believe there is research being done at the moment on a possible link between tongue tie and folic acid- ie that taking folic acid increases the risk of tongue tie.

Just to caution, my tt baby never managed to latch properly after getting a full tummy from a bottle. Nipple/test confusion is very real. Also, even with my non tt babies, I found it very difficult for them to take enough breast in for the first few weeks because they were tiny (well 9lb ers but still!) and my boobs huge. The good news is that babies grow astonishingly fast so this gets better on its own fairly quickly.

Took us about 10 days post snip to get the hang of a latch.

I believe there is research being done at the moment on a possible link between tongue tie and folic acid- ie that taking folic acid increases the risk of tongue tie.

That's really interesting as both my sons had tongue tie and I took 5mg of Folic Acid in both pregnancies.

Are your nipples flat at all? If so I can't recommend the lansinoh latch assist enough!

I expressed and used a small plastic cup to top up rather than a bottle.

DD2 had a tongue tie. I had no pain with breastfeeding at all (although it was75% tie) but she lost lots of weight. Snipped at 3 weeks and took another week or two for her to feed well, when she suddenly started gaining lots of weight.

Are you able to see a cranial osteopath? They are often recommended after tongue tie snips. I have no evidence of how it all works, but the theory is that the osteopath can help to "loosen" up the muscles in the tongue. I was sceptical, but there were improvements after just one session and it certainly didn't hurt (and DD seemed to enjoy it!)