to be furious they have banned Uber from London?

[Acidophilus]

WTF?

Uber has itsbissues but this is ridiculous.

TFL have bowed to Black cab pressure and we will all pay massively for it. Or get mini cabs that are less safe and treat heir drivers worse.

Not if the black-cab dinosaurs and their friends in high political places have their anti-competitive way.

Yeah I did say if , it is obvious that some of the cheerleaders of this decision has been from a purely political stand point.

lefties socialist. Im with Redtoothbrush. You don't have to be a leftie socialist to be against the business models typified by Urber. There's a lot to be said for market forces but markets are not totally free, governments do intervene (light touch) for the simple reason that if left to their own devices, they produce monopolies which in turn is bad for consumers and the economy. The gig economies are new, all that is happening is that governments are trying to understand how they will regulate them and regulate them they will. You only have to think what would happen if we put privatised the nhs, should we leave that to market forces too or accept that actually we should intervene for the greater good..

Yep, academics, financial institutions and media have all done studies. Google to find them, there's quite a few.

So, FlowerPot1234, you don't have any stats.

You are investing an awful lot in this thread, 30 posts so far! Wonder why?

no responsibility for the welfare of drivers or passengers etc

I do not get this line of thinking, you have to have a PCO licence to drive for Uber in London. If there's a problem with vetting and insurance of Uber drives, then perhaps the PCO licence should be investigated to find out why these unfit drivers are on the road.

As for passenger safety, there are more safety checks in place than there is with black cabs, as the cab gives you the name/reg before you get in the car, and an e-receipt showing your journey that has been logged via GPS.

Ifailed
Yep, academics, financial institutions and media have all done studies. Google to find them, there's quite a few.
So, FlowerPot1234, you don't have any stats.
You are investing an awful lot in this thread, 30 posts so far! Wonder why?

If ever there was a more appropriate username...
You asked me for stats, there are so many I have signposted you to them under specific categories to help you, you can't be bothered to even to a basic Google and find them, and you come up with that tripe, pathetic reply.
Yes, you're right, I haven't posted as many as other posters who hate Uber. Oooh, put on your tin foil hat, you might see secret Uber spies under your bed tonight.

I can't wait until Khan rolls over under the weight of 40,000 drivers who have lost their chosen livelihood and a million customers who have lost the service they choose to purchase though this anti-business, anti-self-reliance, anti-gig-economy, anti-individual-freedom, wholly political ban.

RidingWindHorses it's a complete lie that black cab drivers won't come south of the Thames.

So my experience of over 40 years of the opposite doesn't count then! Have you never gone down a cab rank because the black cab driver wanted a better fare after queuing up for an hour. They are very selective when they want to be.

Flowerpot - do you not think working 60 hours a week every week of the year to earn £18,000 net in London is a bit crap? Or do you have alternative figures re what Uber drivers earn when working maxed out hours?

Honestly I started the thread pro Uber but you are counter intuitively pushing me the other way!

Some guy started a petition to 'save uber'. Fine, no problem with that. Except he wasn't a normal person. He was Uber's UK Manager and he wasn't exactly transparent about it.

Its rather cynical.

I personally think its bad business to be a tosser. Workers are more productive as a rule if they are treated better. Lots of evidence to support this too.

havnt rtft but what did you do before uber

i us to use th buses an tubes which are much bettr now than thy usd to be-at least black cab drivrs ar trained tested an lookd at

if uber cant agree to propr checks they should be booted

lefties socialist. Im with Redtoothbrush. You don't have to be a leftie socialist to be against the business models typified by Urber. There's a lot to be said for market forces but markets are not totally free, governments do intervene (light touch) for the simple reason that if left to their own devices, they produce monopolies which in turn is bad for consumers and the economy.

Pretty much how TFL has become the monopoly and some are high ranking amongst labour officials, also why there is greater resistance to accepting of technological advances.

The gig economies are new, all that is happening is that governments are trying to understand how they will regulate them and regulate them they will.

However totally agree with this point, governments will get a handle on it, and until companies like Air bnb get the same treatment a lot of the "socialists" will be quite happy.

if uber cant agree to propr checks they should be booted

As you haven't read the thread, maybe just a quick google will point you in the direction that they are checked the same as any other can driver, and do not controll the licensing

You don't have to be a leftie socialist to be against the business models typified by Urber.

Absolutely. And it's highly likely there will be a significant correlation between people voting for Corbyn and people signing the bring back Uber petition.

It's interesting that the Uber lobbyists are spreading the false rumour that Uber's application to renew its licence was rejected as part of a left-wing conspiracy against the free market.

This may play well in some quarters, but even Uber boss Khosrowshahi said he disagreed with the decision but it was based on past behaviour.

“The truth is that there is a high cost to a bad reputation,” he wrote. “It really matters what people think of us, especially in a global business like ours."

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/sep/22/uber-licence-transport-for-london-tfl

The firm’s application for a new licence in London was rejected by Transport for London on the basis that the company is not a “fit and proper” private car hire operator.

TfL said it had rejected the company’s application to renew its licence because “Uber’s approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility” in relation to reporting serious criminal offences, obtaining medical certificates and driver background checks.

The licensing body also said it was concerned by Uber’s use of Greyball, software that can be used to block regulatory bodies from gaining full access to its app and undertaking regulatory or law enforcement duties.

I'm bemused by a company which installs a special computer system to prevent regulatory authorities supervising, and diverting them to a fake website.

No doubt if Uber clean up their act and start to behave like a decent and respectable company, they will get their licence back.

Khosrowshahi was taken on to clean up Uber. Let's see if he can do it.

It's interesting that the Uber lobbyists are spreading the false rumour that Uber's application to renew its licence was rejected as part of a left-wing conspiracy against the free market.

No, the "lobbyists" are pointing out the partisan arguments against those championing this result.

TfL said it had rejected the company’s application to renew its licence because “Uber’s approach and conduct demonstrate a lack of corporate responsibility” in relation to reporting serious criminal offences.

This issue with this is , they are a tech business banking on automation and acting as an intermediary, government will catch up (which is needed IMO) but there are many other companies that operate under the same medium that many on the "left" seem to ignore.

, obtaining medical certificates and driver background checks

This is the joke, and I think the crux of the issue that people are picking up on, TFL tried to block Uber a couple of years ago because of the licensing issue, so they introduced that all Uber drivers needed to be licensed.

So we have a situation where part of the requirement of the PCO licence is that you have hire and reward insurance cover, however TfL changed the rules regarding licensing meaning that as of June last year you no longer require insurance to be valid at all times, just at the point of requesting the licence or when used as a private car hire.

Uber are not outsourcing the costs and risks onto drivers and riders, but on to the local authorities requirements for private car hire. This is not unique to Uber, but to the entire private car hire industry. If TfL believe this to be a short coming of private car hire, they should perhaps look closer to home to re-tightening the rules regarding licencing and not just make an example of the dominant player in the hopes the issues will fade away.

Riding with horses - I'm really pleased for you that your 80 year old parents are fully mobile. That's not my experience. Uber has changed everything for us. Am I happy about the way they run their company, no. Am I going to be unhappy if they can't take my mum all the places she wants to go and cannot take public transport to, yes I'm afraid so.

And WTF to someone who said "black cabs not wanting to go south of the river is a complete lie" ... I'm in SW17 and can reliably assure you that is sadly still the case!

lurker, why do you assume that a person who wants companies to behave decently and legally is "partisan" and "on the left?"

Should we assume that because you are clearly not "on the left" you are happy for business not to behave decently and legally?

Well take a look at this....

like I said...

"No doubt if Uber clean up their act and start to behave like a decent and respectable company, they will get their licence back."

lurker, why do you assume that a person who wants companies to behave decently and legally is "partisan" and "on the left?"

I don't, but just like you and others I do not change my username and we all seem to pop up on these type of threads.

Should we assume that because you are clearly not "on the left" you are happy for business not to behave decently and legally?

Nope, I am a dirty centrist, I do think businesses should behave decently and legally, but I notice that you have ignored the whole TFL/PCO license and are more coming from the partisan pro union line.

I don't know what your "partisan pro union line" is

Maybe, from your perspective, the previous President of Uber is part of a left-wing conspiracy. He resigned saying:

“The beliefs and approach to leadership that have guided my career are inconsistent with what I saw and experienced at Uber, and I can no longer continue as president of the ride-sharing business.”

www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/mar/20/uber-president-quit-as-firm-was-inconsistent-with-his-values

Many people disapprove of a company that systematically and deliberately deceives and obstructs law-enforcement and regularity authorities.

Don't you?

Riding with horses - I'm really pleased for you that your 80 year old parents are fully mobile. That's not my experience. Uber has changed everything for us. Am I happy about the way they run their company, no. Am I going to be unhappy if they can't take my mum all the places she wants to go and cannot take public transport to, yes I'm afraid so.

They're not, that's the point. My mother has severe arthritis. My father has heart disease and the beginnings of dementia.

Get to grips with normal mini cabs, they will take your mum everywhere she wants to go. Try the Keen Group they operate over the whole of S.London.

And WTF to someone who said "black cabs not wanting to go south of the river is a complete lie" ... I'm in SW17 and can reliably assure you that is sadly still the case!

That was me. I live in SW15, have done all my life, you're down the road from me. No black cab has refused to take me south of the river, ever. And there are plenty of black cabs that circulate in South London. There's a black cab rank outside my station.

I don't know what your "partisan pro union line" is

Of course you don't I am obviously being obtuse..

Many people disapprove of a company that systematically and deliberately deceives and obstructs law-enforcement and regularity authorities.

Many people also approve of the company and there have been "many" instances where regularity authorities have been denied access into black/mini cab firms over the years, to suggest otherwise is laughable.

Don't you?

As I have already said, nope I don't, but I still notice how you have ignored the PCO/TFL licensing issue which apparently is a big part re customer/employee safe gaurds

Riding ... why is it so hard to accept we have different experiences? Uber losing its licence will negatively impact me and my family. Fact.

I am not ignoring the fact that they have been denied a licence renewal because they are not "fit and proper"

Your attempts to distract from the need for businesses to behave decently and legally is just fluff.

Because you're 5 mins down the road from me and I don't believe you have fundamentally different experience of black cabs from everyone I know in S.London going back 40 years.

Uber will likely get its license back with conditions attached, but if you just got your head round minicabs the demise of Uber would make precisely zero difference to you and your mother's life.

So stop catastrophising and engage with that.