Teacher training AIBU

[PamplemousseRouge]

I gave up a teacher training course a couple of months in, at the end of last year. Not sure if anyone remembers the thread I wrote about it, but it felt (and still feels) like absolutely the right decision to make, as it was running me into the ground. I'm currently working on weekday evenings as a tutor whilst applying for jobs, and I'm really enjoying it.

However, recently, I've been having a think about what kind of career path I would like to have long-term.

I love the idea of working in a career with an educational element to it - anything from developing educational policy in government or in a think-tank, helping groups to open up new schools and working for tuition agencies that double up as 'educational consultancies' (ie. advising students on university applications, which I'm already involved in on a freelance basis). I particularly like the idea of developing skills and a specialism now, and then using what I've learned to get introduced to even more career opportunities and options.

So here's my AIBU - would teacher training have really helped as a foundation for any of these roles? Or was I being reasonable give it up as a) it was getting insane and b) it wouldn't have helped me anyway with these roles?

As a teacher with more than ten years of experience, I find it more than galling that someone who dropped out of teacher training after two months would be hired in "educational policy"! How could you be in a position to tell people what to do or to set policy?

Sorry OP but I'll reiterate what many previous posters have already pointed out.... I'm a primary school teacher with 20 years experience and gave it all up about 4 years ago!! (woo hoo!!).... There is nothing worse for a teacher than being presented with "new ideas"... Or "advice" from someone who has not been at the coal face... If you were unable to continue with your training...then why on earth do you think you would have the understanding and expertise to enter into a "think tank" or similar..?... Sorry....I hope you find something which you would be more suited to...

Thanks everyone. I fully understand and appreciate everything that you've said on here.

To the posters who have given constructive and positive advice, thank you so much - I really appreciate it

Some other posters have given less helpful advice, and have been quite personal and unkind, which was really uncalled-for.

I can completely understand why being curious about involved in something that I have no experience in may be a problem and may get people's backs up, but my OP asked how I can eventually perhaps get involved in something although I don't currently have experience in it. I don't think that makes me 'incredibly arrogant'.

Out of interest, what do you all (especially teachers) think of Civil servants who are drafted in to work for the Department of Education? Or people like Sam Freedman at Teach First, for example? policyexchange.org.uk/author/sam-freedman/

Do you have a 1st class degree from Oxbridge? (or probably just Cambridge?)

If not you won't get a job in an educational think tank (or indeed one as a SPAD developing educational policy)

helping groups to open up new schools

What role would you like to play in this?

I get where you're coming from OP. I can see how someone could try a PGCE, see how crazy it is, but rather than go "Sod this - I'm not having anything more to do with schools!", think that they would like to contribute to and somehow help the education system in another capacity, maybe 'behind the scenes'.

But it is a measure of how monumentally hacked off we are that people get so angry about non teachers wanting to improve things. We've all had just about enough of all the latest 'improvements'.

Have you considered working as a TA?

TBH if you are planning to go into educational thinktanks offering opinions and advice with no classroom experience, you'd better get used to teachers offering some fairly robust opinions of their own!

We will all understand why someone decides teaching isn't for them (I'm thinking that myself at he moment), but offering expertise based on bugger-all practical experience will never go well.

Perhaps look into the education teams of charities or similar to get experience of working with curriculum?

I don't think much of people who inform education policy who haven't worked for a good length of time in schools, to answer your question. I include in that SMT who have scurried out of the classroom as quickly as possible, to then occasionally tell me how I should be doing things they haven't done for years if at all. I particularly dislike TeachFirst as an organisation, which doesn't seem to help recruitment long term, though I don't know the person you are talking about.

Basically, as a teacher, I have a lot of dislike! I find being cynical necessary for survival (and I'm having a year out at the moment for health reasons which teaching has definitely exacerbated).

@PamplemousseRouge
Based on what you have said, I would suggest having a look on the Civil Service jobs website for DfE jobs.
Also try the New Schools Network

I think people underestimate how much experience informs educational expertise. I've been a teacher for 16 years. I don't think I was a really effective teacher until about 7 years in and that's with absolute conscientious commitment to the job. The training is only just crossing the starting line, to be frank. It would be like passing the driving test and then expecting to be a world class driver. Teacher training is all encompassing in terms of management strategies and planning. I think that if you're going to work in education in the way you want, you must have teacher training. I will be honest and say the idea of someone getting a doctorate in educational policy and telling teachers what to do is an absolute joke. I completely reject anyone's advice on my profession unless they have classroom experience.

I believe with the Civil Service Fast Stream Generalist you can work in Educational Policy, among other things, and work your way up into a more managerial role. Once You get to a level Where You can actually make a difference ( management,etc) , If You want to make a difference , You must be willing to listen and gather lots of evidence on the ground, consult experts but also teachers from different schools and areas, families, the public, community services, charities, and so on to gather enough evidence to support one policy or another and do your jobs based in real evidence on the ground and not on politics but You will also have to be able to have enough people to influence political agendas in a way ( so if you go into it because wanting to make a difference , not sure how much difference anyone can make really and you may become disappointed ) . A manager can't choose one policy over the other based on their personal experience, as needs are wildly different even within different schools, never mind within the UK. I think a Master in Policy Analysis or Management or even Politics or Similar and Applying for the Civil Service is the way to go.

Do you have a 1st class degree from Oxbridge? (or probably just Cambridge?)

Why do you say this illustrated?

I get where you're coming from OP. I can see how someone could try a PGCE, see how crazy it is, but rather than go "Sod this - I'm not having anything more to do with schools!", think that they would like to contribute to and somehow help the education system in another capacity, maybe 'behind the scenes'.

Eolian that's absolutely it. I completely understand why that really frustrate teachers though. I feel so resigned and frustrated with myself to be really honest, because it is an area that I am really interested in, and I think it could make a real difference it it's done properly, but I'm not sure how this can be done! I do feel ashamed and like a fraud for even considering getting involved in it really, as it does sound very pompous and arrogant to suddenly go and basically tell teachers how they should do their jobs.

I can completely see and understand how stressful it must be to have to work according to the demands of each new policy as it comes along. Even at the school where I was based at when I was doing teacher training, the headteacher would come up with new initiatives and strategies for everything every half-term. It caused me so much bloody stressa, and would leave groups of us scratching our heads on INSET days as we tried to discuss and work out what each new initiative meant.

Maybe you could start a think tank to think about one of the biggest issues in education - the fact it is run and designed by people whose only experience has been to attend school and never teach.

I wouldn't waltz in to a hospital and tell a doctor how to do open heart surgery ...

I think you're slightly overdoing piece.

What did you think of the Wolf Report?

What aspect of teacher training made you quit, OP? Workload, behaviour, planning?

Wolf report was about vocational education for 14+? Doesn't take a genius to work out that that is the way forward (again). That old chestnut rises and falls like a spring tide. I am sure any teacher will tell you that pathways/green an red paths etc are a great idea. Then Gove arrived. Now we are looking at it again ...
Or was I not supposed to know about it serf?
As for over egging it I had a three hour meeting after school dealing with parents/resits and generally picking up the shit from a new syllabus designed by people who have never taught a group of low ability, low income, PP kids on a Friday afternoon - yet tell me that these kids need to learn a wealth of literature and learn 15 poems by heart.

"anything from developing educational policy in government or in a think-tank"

The problem with these two groups is that they are full of people who have never been teachers. If you go into it then it should be with the view that your role is not to develop policy per se, rather gather evidence from teachers and help them develop policy. Perhaps a teaching trade union may be a helpful place to do that as opposed to a think tank.

"helping groups to open up new schools"

Again, I would approach this from the teaching angle. You could, I suppose, help with those groups at a pre-recruitment of teacher stage? Helping them develop and understand their proposed underlying ethos of schools perhaps?

"working for tuition agencies that double up as 'educational consultancies' (ie. advising students on university applications, which I'm already involved in on a freelance basis)."

Not to be too blunt but would you have accepted advice to not do teaching prior to concluding that it wasnt for you? Do you think you are in a position to advise others on things when you gave up your path so quickly?

I think there are possibly roles out there though. I think you might want to look at policy areas that arent pure educational policy but how education is or is not accessible to various groups? So looking at charities that support disabled people, lone parents, educational attainment in disadvantaged communities etc. all have roles that are about supporting people into and through education.

Basically not Education Policy of telling teachers how to teach type stuff (cause you failed at that so have no credibility) but helping promote the value of education, opening it up to others, making sure that those furthers from the classroom and attainment are supported into the class room where teachers can do their thing.

Get a proper qualification in Guidance and Counselling? Help children and young people gain confidence in education. Life Coach - help people do career development planning?

It was a report about educational policy written by an economist and for my money the recommendations were solid.

My point wouldn't have really been made if you hadn't known about it. I was counting on the probability that you would. You are a bit punchy you know.

Serf after the day I have had dealing with educational policy designed by none teachers most people would be 'punchy' as you do eloquently say.
The recommendations of the wolf report are what teachers have been saying for years - but what do we know. It's not like anyone ever asks our opinion

Anyway, to get back to the point, I think it's worth bearing in mind that education policy does cover preschoolers to 21+ (OP certainly hasn't pinned herself down to an age or stage) and that not ALL non-educators' input is necessarily without value.

What aspect of teacher training made you quit, OP? Workload, behaviour, planning?

Probably a combination of all of those. I was on the Schools Direct scheme with Ark, so it was quite a challenging school.

The school was under a lot of pressure to progress academically and the staff were all quite stressed as there was always a huge amount of work to do in terms of maintaining the pupils' behaviour and the academic results. As the staff were under so much strain, there was also a lot of miscommunication (I was co-form tutor with another member of staff. On a couple of occasions, I was prevented by a deputy headteacher from going into my form-room to do registration while, on the other side of the door, my co-tutor was beckoning for me to come in. The deputy headteacher wouldn't say why they weren't letting me into the form-room. The other form tutor hadn't been told (and I hadn't been told either) that it had been suggested that I stop doing registration for a bit in order to de-stress.)

My mentor also wasn't available to observe me, as he was covering for the head of department, who was also a deputy head. So everyone was really, really busy, and weirdly, every time that I asked for help or guidance, I was told that I shouldn't worry, even when it was clear that things from my end weren't okay.

Also, as the pupils with the worst behaviour didn't always have their detentions followed up and acted upon, so I didn't always feel supported by colleagues if I ever had to issue sanctions.

What are you doing work wise ATM OP?